Beyond Tired: Secrets to Beating Burnout in eCommerce
Guest: Mario Lanzarotti
Mario Lanzarotti is more than just a TEDx Speaker with nearly a million views; he's the creator of the Zenpreneur Method, a High Performance Coach who challenges the hustle and grind culture that's prevalent in entrepreneurship. Through his company, Six Figures Zen, he helps agency owners scale to multi-six-figure levels, without burnout.
Here’s a summary of the great stuff that we cover in this show:
In the fast-paced world of eCommerce, the word 'burnout' often lurks in the shadows, unspoken yet ever-present. In a recent episode of eCommerce Podcast, I had the opportunity to sit down with Mario Lanzarotti, a high-performance coach who's turning the spotlight on this critical issue. Our conversation wasn't just an exchange of ideas; it was abut getting into the realities of burnout and how to combat it.
Recognising the Signs:
Burnout is a stealthy intruder. It doesn't barge in; it creeps up on you. Mario highlighted some key symptoms that are often dismissed as just another bad day but are, in fact, red flags:
A constant state of irritation and being easily triggered by trivial matters.
Sleep becomes elusive, and mornings start with grogginess instead of freshness.
Concentration scatters, focus dwindles, and multitasking becomes a chaotic norm.
Overwhelming tiredness becomes a daily companion, and the end of the day feels like a crash landing.
Rest turns into a numbing exercise rather than a rejuvenating experience.
The Brotherhood Factor:
One of the most striking points from our discussion was the importance of brotherhood, especially for men in the eCommerce space. A supportive network, a band of brothers, can be a powerful antidote to the isolating effects of burnout. It's a space for vulnerability, sharing, and mutual support, which is often missing in the competitive business environment.
Nature's Role:
Another key takeaway was the healing power of nature. Mario emphasised the need to unplug from technology and reconnect with the natural world. It's not just about taking a break; it's about recharging in the most organic way possible.
The Human Connection in Business:
Our conversation also touched on the importance of strategic alliances in eCommerce. But beyond business partnerships, it's about fostering human connections. Mario spoke about focusing on service and building meaningful collaborations, which can lead to more fulfilling and productive business relationships.
Burnout in eCommerce is real, and it's imperative that we talk about it, recognise its signs, and take proactive steps to address it. Whether it's finding your brotherhood, reconnecting with nature, or building human connections in business, the journey to overcoming burnout starts with acknowledging its presence.
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Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now this is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce wow. Oh yes. And to help us do just that today, I am chatting with my very good guest, special guest, Mario Lanzarotti from Six Figure Zen about the Zenpreneur approach to scaling your business.
Yeah, we're going to take a slightly different tack today, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to be talking about how to avoid burnout as eCommerce entrepreneurs amongst other things with the legend that is known as Mario. But before we get into that, let me just remind you, if you are regular to the show, this you will already know, but if you're not for the first time with us, warm welcome to you.
It's great to have you with us. Make sure you head over to the website, eCommercepodcast. net. Make sure you hit the, the button which says... Subscribe to the podcast, give us your email and we'll send you an email every week with the latest episode [00:01:00] notes and all that sort of stuff in there that comes straight to your inbox totally for free, which is just medical and you never miss out on anything.
I'm having conversations with Mario. You're going to want to take notes. You're going to want all the links. We send all that to you. So just head over to eCommercePodcast. net and make sure you sign up for that. Now, today's episode. It is made possible by the fabulous e commerce cohort, the monthly membership and mastermind group that you should definitely be a part of if you're involved in e commerce.
It is all about helping you grow and deliver e commerce wow every month. There are expert workshops that you can join in. You can join in the podcast recordings. We stream them live into the cohort. You can watch live. You can come along. You can ask guest questions. You can do all of that good stuff. Yes, you can without any drama.
So check it out ecommercecohort. com I'm in there. Come join me. It'll be great to see you. Now, Mario Lanzarotti [00:02:00] is more than just a TEDx speaker. with nearly a million views. He's the creator of the Zenpreneur Method, a high performance coach who challenges the hustle and grind culture that's prevalent in entrepreneurship.
Through his company, Six Figure Zen, he helps agency owners scale to multi six figure levels without burnout. And this actually, ladies and gentlemen, is the second podcast Mario and I have recorded. Yes, if you don't know, I have a few different podcasts, one of which is called Push To Be More where we talk with business leaders about all things business.
And it's fair to say Mario, that's where you and I met. We had a great conversation on there, so we thought let's bring that over. To the e-Commerce podcast. So welcome to the show, man. Welcome to this one. How are we doing?
Mario Lanzarotti: Matt, thank you so much for having me again. It's a pleasure to be here. I really enjoyed our first conversation, so I'm excited about this one and what nuggets we're going to extract for your amazing listeners. And yeah, I'm just excited to be here today.[00:03:00]
Matt Edmundson: Like you, I enjoyed the first conversation. I thought this would be great. And it was it is fascinating because you've coined this phrase, zenpreneur which I love. If I think it's very clever. We, I've coined the phrase e-commerce.
I probably should trademark that if no one's done that already. To talk about people in e-commerce, but you've got this zenpreneur thing. How did that all come about?
Mario Lanzarotti: That's a good question. It came about out of my own waking up process from a deep disappointment. When I was working, when I was working in New York City, I had a startup there, my first startup in eCommerce. We were selling custom shoes that you could 3D design on our website. The brand was called Awl & Sundry.
And the reason I decided to become an entrepreneur is because I wanted freedom. I wanted to be able to decide how I work, where I work, how much I work, and I mainly wanted to feel that sense of freedom within myself. And then [00:04:00] fast forward two years into New York, I was burned out. I had panic attacks. I was never really present with people outside of work.
I was working seven days a week, and whenever I had a small break somewhere that was outside of work, What was I thinking about? More work. So I really felt that I didn't have any freedom and that kept on perpetuating itself further into my entrepreneurial journey. And at some point I realized that freedom that I was looking for was something that I could not find outside of myself.
It would, I couldn't find it in the money. I couldn't find it in living the remote lifestyle. I was, I'm living in Cape Town now. I was living in Mexico and different places in Europe and the United States and on the surface, my life looked amazing, but on the inside, I didn't feel that I always felt that sense of whatever I do.
It's just not enough. And I would pride myself with that because if you look into the [00:05:00] hustle and grind culture, the sensation of it's not enough, that feeling of not enough. is a good thing, because it keeps you pushing, it keeps you going forward. Now, for me, I was like, there has to be a better way, because whenever I did a meditation, whenever I did something that was for my well being, What I started to notice is that with that enhanced sense of well being, I was showing up differently.
I was much more relaxed in my interactions with people. I was much more present with what people were saying, which meant I could hear more and see more opportunities. And I would sleep better. I would just make better decisions altogether. That's where I was like, okay, maybe there's a way to bring together that focus on well being and still connect it to high performance and success.
Matt Edmundson: So you cracked the code, [00:06:00] basically.
Mario Lanzarotti: Maybe! We'll see.
Matt Edmundson: Let's summarize. We've cracked the code, ladies and gentlemen. And this is great. And this is the conversation that we had on Push, wasn't it? And we talked around this quite a bit and the challenges, that you went through in the business and so on and so forth. But today I wanted to get into this specifically, this code, for want of a better expression.
Where eCom entrepreneurs are, because you've worked with eCom entrepreneurs. You've, it sounds like you've done a few online things yourself. You know what it is to sit in that chair. And so let's, I wanted to take a different, a slightly different tack, because normally we'd talk about, this is how you do eCommerce better.
Or, we give. Tips and tricks on how to deduce that. So let's actually today focus on the eCommerce list, the person listening themselves and talk about this idea of burnout, because it's a word which I've heard a lot. It's a word which I have, um, seen. I heard people use more and more [00:07:00] frequently that they feel like they're experiencing burnout.
So let's start at the beginning, Mario, if we can, and use your expertise and all the stuff that you've learned along the way. How would you define burnout? How would somebody know if they're going through something like burnout?
Mario Lanzarotti: Yeah, that's a great question. And I would say some of the symptoms to recognize that you are experiencing burnout are, first of all, It's that sense of you're easily irritated, that there's a sense of getting triggered by small things. You might, one of the people that you work with says, Okay, I'm going to get you that, that thing by 3pm.
And it's 3. 30, and you're starting to freak out on the inside. You're like, how dare this person, what's going on? This is not what I'm paying for, that kind of stuff. You're not sleeping well. You're waking up, you're not feeling refreshed. But you're feeling kind of groggy. You need half a pot of coffee to get going.
Maybe you need, you need to get a, have a shower first, [00:08:00] and it takes you like half an hour to just start the engine for it to start running smoothly. Another sign is that you're, there's a lack of focus, a lack of concentration, and you're easily distracted, instead of completing a task, you're flipping around, and you're doing all four or five other things at the same time, and then there's just this overlying sensation of being tired, like you arrive at the end of the day, and you're crashing.
And you need a lot of coping mechanisms, like binge watching Netflix excessive amounts of alcohol, weed you need something to give yourself pleasure that doesn't come from within. Food is another thing. And then come the weekend, Friday, you're like... God, it's Friday. And then there's this sense of and so when you're resting, the resting isn't really a regenerative resting, but it's more like a numbing.
It's more like [00:09:00] a, my God, I'm just so tired. I just don't want to think about stuff. I just don't, let me just go do anything so I can avoid whatever I'm really feeling. So I say, if you're dealing with those things, that's a good sign that you are experiencing burnout.
Matt Edmundson: As you're reading the list I'm going, Oh, I've not got that. Oh, I might have a bit of that. Oh, I've not got that. And I'm just doing this sort of mental checklist and so would it be fair to say, Mary, listening to you go through that, which is a great list, by the way, super helpful because it's very clarifying. There are degrees, then, of burnout, aren't there? Everything that you've talked about there is, it's not black or white, there's a scale. There's a scale of how much I binge watch Netflix, or how tired I wake up feeling in the morning, and so on and so forth. .. And so there's a, I suppose there's a scale of burnout, isn't there, that we can go through.
Are there different stages that you've noticed with people, starting with some, something quite mild at the top to, full on burnout at the bottom that we go through?
Mario Lanzarotti: Yeah, absolutely. [00:10:00] And just like you said, it's never black or white. It's never like a, my brand is called the Zenpreneur. It's not that I'd never experience any of those things. I do. The mastery process is recognizing that, oh, okay, I'm quite irritable today. It's okay, what's going on?
And then I can check in with myself. How much am I sleeping? How much time am I taking to work out? Just last week, I noticed I got really un present. I was rushing from one thing to the next, just pop, one task, one meeting to the next, and then I, at the end of the day, I sat down, and I noticed that I just wanted to binge watch something, and when I had this desire for some quote unquote unhealthy food, like some fast food, and then I caught myself, I was like, whoa, it's like, when was the last time I did nothing?
When was the last time I just went outside and I just sat down somewhere and I just enjoyed the sunset and I just, [00:11:00] decided to be with myself and I was like, okay, I haven't been doing that for quite some time, even though I meditate every single day, my meditations I'm doing, they're activation meditations, they're not just do nothing meditations and sometimes it's important to do that.
So I would say, to your point, not black and white. Very true. And then of course, as I just said, you will notice those signs. And the thing is, if you're not trained, if you're not, if you have never sat down to exercise your awareness muscle, it's likely that those things will slip by you. And it's even more likely that you tell yourself, Oh, this is just the way that it is.
And this is the challenge that I see with the whole hustle and grind culture, where we make burnout almost a trophy. It's like Sleep is for losers. It's I can sleep when I'm dead. I used to say that. I can sleep when I'm dead. Like we would, I can still see this [00:12:00] going on. A lot of people are just like using that as a means to justify not looking within themselves.
And the more you do this, the more of a ticking time bomb it is. You might be irritable in the beginning, but at some point, what I see a lot, and that's really sad, is a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs are just numb. They just don't feel anything. They're just like, when I ask them what's going on, I don't know.
I don't know. It's just, I don't know. It's just, nothing excites them anymore. So they have to go for the bigger and bigger dopamine hits. And they have to go for, hit the next goal and the next goal. But the goal doesn't give nothing to them anymore. They might already have the money, but they feel empty on the inside.
And when you're feeling empty on the inside, Like I had a conversation the other day with a client, he told me that over the years he'd been doing this so much, he didn't feel anything when he got married.
Matt Edmundson: Wow.
Mario Lanzarotti: own wedding, he didn't feel much.
Matt Edmundson: sad, that, isn't it?
Mario Lanzarotti: And [00:13:00] he went through a whole life transformation. Kudos to him.
But there's a lot of people, especially men, because we're men, we're so rational, we're so head connected that we don't disconnect from our bodies, that all we justify this, we try to think ourselves out of the things that are happening inside of us. And at some point, there's such a strong disconnect that Then, burnout is essentially a sensation of strongly accumulated stress.
And over time, that stress turns into disease. And that's when we're talking cancer. That's when we're talking diabetes. That's when we're seeing, high blood pressure. And, people might be saying, oh, no, that's not correlated. But please take a look. There are studies over studies that show you the correlation between mind...
Emotions and actual disease manifesting in the body.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting phrase you use that burnout is the accumulation of stress. And so [00:14:00] we burn out because we have accumulated stress and we have not dealt with stress. There's that old phrase, isn't it? Catch the foxes before they spoil the vineyard kind of thing, or catch the little foxes before they spoil the vineyard.
And so it's easy, I think, and I'm speaking from experience here, I'm an eCommerce entrepreneur, and I can quite happily work 12, 13 hours a day, sometimes just with everything that's going on and all the things that we need to do. And you You know that you should probably just take a break, go for a walk.
These sort of little things maybe even do a workout that day or whatever, but something takes you away from it. And when I find for me that actually, when I am stressed, I tend to avoid those little things that actually make me well, for want of a better expression, those little things.
And so then I can see this accumulate, I can see with this phrase, the accumulation of stress makes sense because I've not done The little things that sort of stopped that early in its track. Yeah.
Mario Lanzarotti: Yeah. And,
the [00:15:00] conversation is also about, and this is really important because a lot of your listeners are probably like yeah. Sounds good. Sounds nice, but I've got bills to pay. I've got goals to hit and I get it and the whole notion that I'm bringing forward of the Zenpreneur is not well being at the expense of your performance, of the results that you're creating in life, quite the contrary.
What I'm saying is that if you make your well being the priority, you're going to produce It's way bigger and better results, maybe not in the immediate short term, although now I'm already seeing that, not even that is accurate, but for sure in the long term, I mean think about this, when you're feeling in your center, your decisions are clearer, when you're in your center, you communicate Better, which means the people that work with you, they understand you better.
That means there's less conflict. If there's less conflict, people are [00:16:00] doing what they're supposed to be doing, which means tasks get done in time and in the way that you ask them to get done. And so also your creative thinking capacity. If you cannot think creatively, you're lost. You're just eating stuff again and again, and you're expecting a different outcome, which is the definition of insanity.
My idea is, my, what I'm proposing is, Creating a foundation of well being, that doesn't mean that you have to, like me, get up at 5 every day in the morning and have a 3 4 hour morning routine, I think that's a bit extreme for most people, but seriously, just 20 minutes, 20 minutes of you sitting down and just focusing on your breathing and just focusing on eating healthy and clean and drinking mostly water, it's small shifts, Have such a quantum impact on the way that you operate as a business owner.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And actually we see that in eCommerce. We talk about this in [00:17:00] eCommerce and it's. We talk about the rule of one percent which is actually if I can increase things by one percent, then the overall impact on the business is quite extraordinary. If I can increase my conversion rate by one percent, if I can increase my open rate by one percent.
And so quite often in eCommerce, we're looking for the What's going to grow my business, what's going to double it in the next 12 months, which is fine if you're starting up, but actually, if you've been around for a while, the better question it seems to ask is, where can I find these 1 percent gains because actually it has a profound impact on everything.
And that's we talk about that in eCommerce cause it works, right? And what you're talking about here is physically going. Where are the 1 percent gains mentally, emotionally, spiritually, where are those gains that can help me because I, and again, I don't know if you found this to be your experience, Mary.
I know if I try and change too much overnight, it's, it doesn't really last because I run out of steam. I run out of energy.
Mario Lanzarotti: [00:18:00] Yep. Same. It's, I love using the gym analogy. If you're going to the gym and your biceps is at a, for lack of a better description, at a level one, and you want to ultimately get to a level 10, if you try to get there in two days, you're going to rip your muscles apart and you're going to be You're going to be able to do nothing for a couple months because you tried so hard to push into that.
So the philosophy is, what you're bringing for once 1 percent every day is essentially a Zen philosophy, which is all about detaching yourself from the outcome. If you detach yourself from the outcome, let's say your goal is to generate 50, 000 per month with your business in revenue or in income, whatever, wherever you're at, and You're so caught up on that goal.
You're like, I got to get to this goal. I got to get to this goal. I got to get to this goal. What happens is you get tense. Your body [00:19:00] creates an additional amount of stress, chronic stress. And so you start making decisions from a reactive place. You start trying to cut corners. You try to Engage in unethical practices.
You're trying to, deny your own commitments or the commitments you made to other people. And you create a lot of problems, but if you detach from the goal, which doesn't mean whatever, screw it, I don't care. It just means that you focus on what's in your hand right now in this moment. The, there's a zen say, zen story of a student that goes to the master and the student ask the master master, how do I become enlightened?
And the master tells them, chop wood carry water. And what does that mean? You focus on what's in your control every day. You do the basics. You focus on the things that are really there sustainably to create long-term success. And if you just do that every single day. It will be inevitable for you to create [00:20:00] the success you want, but the beautiful thing is that, and that is, you remove all of that anxiety, you remove all of that chronic stress, because you're not attached to the outcome, you're in the moment, you're in the process, that's how the best players in sports, why they're so good, if you look at a Ronaldo in soccer or football, or a Messi, they're not like, they didn't start out with I gotta win, I gotta win, I gotta win, they were in love with the sport.
www. They just, if you see them play, they're in the moment. That's why they're so genius. And the same applies to eCommerce owners or entrepreneurs.
Matt Edmundson: yeah, absolutely. It's a fascinating day. Yeah. I it's an interesting one, isn't it? I think my general observation is very similar in the sense that if you have a goal and you've read all the goal setting books and you've, you've got smart goals and life goals and five year goals and 10 year goals and big hairy audacious goals and all the goals you can possibly [00:21:00] think of.
And I'm not belittling them at all. I think it's useful to think about Those kind of things. For me, it's more about the journey than the destination. I think is, I think it was John Maxwell that said success is a journey, not a destination, which I think is a really interesting phrase. And so doing what you're in, doing what's in front of you today, I think, how do you need, how do you eat the elephant one bite at a time?
It's just, you just do what you can do in front of you. And I found actually having a, I don't know if I'd. Having more of a vision, a mission, a sort of a purpose statement is guiding values and principles. I find slightly more helpful if that makes sense. That's not to deny the goals because we have targets, we have goals at work.
But going back to your football analogy or soccer to our American cousins, for me, the, your goals are very simple, your goal is to score a goal, is to win the game, I've got to score goals. You score a few of those in a 90 minute period, most of those 90 minutes is trying to keep the ball within the boundaries [00:22:00] of that field and, in a way that makes sense for you and to be successful at that point in time.
For me that's the values, that's the culture, that's the boundaries, that's where I'm willing to play and sometimes I've got to go backwards to go forwards and I need that free flow and then ultimately it's going to end up in the back of the net.
Mario Lanzarotti: Yeah, I'll give you an example. So in my world, in the world of coaching, I work in the world of high ticket sales. So that means that whenever I'm on a sales call with a person, the majority of thinking goes towards your goal is to close the sale. Now, what happens when I focus on the goal is to close the sale?
Mentally, I am aligning myself with, I need to get to that place. And often what happens is with people is you forget that there's another human being right in front of you. And so you make it about the sale. You don't make it about the person. And so now, when I show up on a call with a person, my focus, my [00:23:00] goal, is to deliver as much value as I can.
Which means the whole conversation is about value. And then, at the end, my sales conversion rate goes up significantly. I do this with all my clients. Every single one of them reports an increase in sales conversion. And another thing is, Even if they say no, they don't leave the call with Oh, man, I failed.
Oh, God, this was terrible. No, they leave the call feeling empowered because they delivered so much value. And they're like, this, I feel appreciated because I just did something that feels right to me. And so naturally, when you show up this way, what happens? Mario, this is just not the solution for me, but you've been so helpful to me today.
Let me connect you to my buddy, Matt. I think Matt would be a great person for you to speak to. Now, this is how you get referrals willingly from people because you're a genuine person. You talked about my TEDx talk, right? My TEDx talk is almost at 1. 5 million views now. And people have asked... [00:24:00] What's your secret?
How did you do it? I didn't hire an agency. I didn't invest a single dollar in ads. My strategy was to deliver value and to show up from a place of love. I had so many people reshare this talk when it came out because I've left an imprint on them. I, whenever I show up on a call, I make it about them. I want to deliver value to you.
I want to get into your world and I want to... Do something for you in whatever capacity I can, and that has always created success for me of, ever since I've applied these principles, I never went back to struggling, I never went back to oh man, I'm not going to show how this month is going to be, there's been ups and downs for sure, but the times that I experienced in New York, they're over, because back when I was living in New York, I definitely did not show up from this place.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah that's really, I'm listening to you talking. I'm going, yeah, I can understand that. We sell high ticket items that I get. I like the [00:25:00] sound of what you're saying. I guess I'm thinking here, how would that? If I'm an eCommerce entrepreneur listening to this, how would that make sense?
How would that translate when I'm not doing calls with clients, for example I, cause I love this concept. We talk about it a lot on the, in cohort, for example, eCommerce cohort about delivering value, understanding your customer, understand the customer story. I'm curious from your point of view how you see that working in eCommerce.
Mario Lanzarotti: Well, eCommerce. The way that I understand it is You know you're selling products, you're selling products, you're selling services, but ultimately there's a, you're dealing with people and whenever you're dealing with people, you can either make it outcome based or you can make it service based. So if I take this, translate this to my team, if all I focus on with my team is the outcome of how they're performing, I'm going to miss out on the human element.
And I'm going to create this robotic environment where people are afraid of their own human nature. [00:26:00] And it's all about, you've got to deliver, you've got to deliver. We all know that business is about creating results. Otherwise, it would be philanthropy or a hobby, right? So we all know that.
That's the bottom line. But if you can treat people from a place of focusing on service, how can I serve you? How can this person that works for me as a business owner, how can I serve them? I'll give you an example. I have a virtual assistant that's been working with me for years. What I did with her is I gave her coaching calls. Once the mother said. Come, I'll coach you for free because you're working, I'm treating you like you're a partner, like you're part of my family, and I did that for her, and the work that she produced and the willingness of showing up for me just skyrocketed, she told me, not too long ago, she edits my podcasts, and she's Mario, is that you?
I love editing your podcast. I learn so much. Like working with you is just amazing and I love the work that she produces. It's great. [00:27:00] And so that's just one example. And then when it comes to eCommerce, I'm assuming it's very important for people there to create strategic alliances, strategic partnerships with other brands.
If you just rely on cold traffic, if you just rely on paid traffic, you can only go so far. So when I was running my eCommerce brand Awl & Sundry in New York, we bootstrapped the whole business. We didn't have money to invest, but what we had was a cool product. And what we had was two young men. Who are full of passion and excitement.
We piggybacked on so many big brands. We collaborated with Sony, the Blacklist the TV show NFL, Super Bowl champions camp chancellor CBS morning show hosts real estate tycoons in New York. We didn't pay anything. Nothing. They often put up the cost for us at the events. We piggybacked on them, but what we did was we understood who they are and we tried to serve them through [00:28:00] what we offered and bring into their way of being, into their brand.
So we designed shoes for them. We made them look extra good. We portrayed them like the absolute champions and they loved what we did. And so they kept introducing us to other VIP clients. And that's how we, we even ended up, the CEO of Google was one of our clients, also came through referrals.
We had another billionaire client, also came through referrals, right? All of this happened mostly word of mouth, and that was a result of us focusing on service, not so much on what can we get from you,
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Super powerful. And I think there's a lot of lessons in that just general business lessons, isn't there? If you focus on serving, focus on delivering value the referrals then come. That's my experience. And referrals is the best form of marketing because not only is it cheaper, it's the people that come to you through that have been referred tend to have a much higher lifetime value to put it in e com terms.
And so they're always the best clients. [00:29:00] Referred podcast guests are always the best podcast guests in a lot of ways. And it's it's really fascinating. All that was for free, ladies and gentlemen we're going to bring it back to burnout a little bit now. Before we hit the record button, Mary, you were talking about how a lot of the eCom entrepreneurs, they work.
by themselves and are sat in front of a computer. And so what are some of the things that we need to think about if I'm listening to the podcast and that, that specifically refers to me? Yeah.
Mario Lanzarotti: If you're an eCommerce entrepreneur, And often what I see is called the Lone Wolf Syndrome. Where all I see is my own world. I see the, I see myself only through my own eyes, which means I cannot see my own blind spots. And which means I'm always accustomed to knowing and seeing how I feel and look.
And so for me, it's oh, it's not that bad. Whatever, sleeping. Four hours, three hours, two hours, it's not that bad, right? So we [00:30:00] need people to reflect ourselves because in relationships we get to see who we are and we get to see how we're showing up in the world. And so for a solo e-commerce entrepreneur, it's so important to have people in your life as a support network.
Whether that is friends, whether that's family. Ideally, you want to have coaches, mentors, even therapists that, that reflect you so that you get to see the things that you're not seeing because those are the things that are costing you. They're costing you your relationships, they're costing you your health, and they're costing you, quite frankly, business opportunities, they're costing you wealth, and they're costing you precious life, because if you're only sitting in front of your computer, and all you're doing is work in front of your computer, and you don't have a life outside of that do you have a life at all?
I had a conversation the other day with a, a very successful coder, he's in the seven to eight figure space, and he came to me, because he's I don't feel anything anymore. I [00:31:00] don't really have any relationships anymore and all I'm doing is I'm working and working and working and it's just so stressful.
I hate it. I'm like, why are you doing all of that? He's I don't know. I don't know. It's the money. And I was like why are you making the money? And he just couldn't answer the question. I went deeper and he said, and eventually he told me, oh, so that one day I can, support a family and said, Do you see the conundrum here?
That's you're isolating yourself so much to the point that you finally have the money to give yourself permission to start building relationships with people. Don't you want to start doing that now? And he's Oh, I never thought about that. I didn't even know why I'm doing what I'm doing so much.
And this is the fate that I see so many business owners in eCommerce. They're just working really hard, but they don't really know why they're doing it. They have something that's guiding that, but they don't question it. And so you need people to reflect you and to help you see what you're not [00:32:00] seeing, because only then can you adopt a more effective and a healthier and a more aligned way of living.
Matt Edmundson: Super powerful. Super powerful. I, and I couldn't agree more. I talk once a month to several people who I'd call coaches and mentors. And I'm a big fan of, I'd call it community. I'm a big fan of the relationship. I think you have to be intentional in a lot of this.
It just doesn't happen. This is my experience in life, and I was talking about this the other day with someone, whereby every, I'm a big Liverpool Football Club fan, and I'm sorry if you don't support Liverpool Football Club, but I do. And and whenever there's a game on TV we have a room in the house which, During lockdown, we turned into a bit of a home cinema, we put a bigger screen in there and nice surround sound.
And I'm like every game that's on TV, we have a WhatsApp group that is constantly getting bigger. And I'm just There's a group of guys, because I think it's good when men get together with men. I'm not saying it has to be like that all the time, but there's something quite [00:33:00] powerful about men and getting together with men.
And I'm like guys, listen, we're watching the football, feel the freedom, who's coming round, and we'll, we'll throw some food on the barbecue or whatever, and we'll just spend a few hours there's a few beers, there's a football game, and there's just guys with banter, but all of those guys that come round. Intentionally, we've all agreed that what we're going to do every now and again, just as a, it's not weird and it just, it's, it's not all the time, but we're just going to go, no, how are you really doing? Do you know what I mean? And and ask the odd question like, how's your marriage? All these questions that men feel uncomfortable asking other men.
And we do that when there's football and there's nowhere to hide in a lot of ways. And it's really good. It's really. Really important, I think, to do things like that.
Mario Lanzarotti: Yeah. Yeah. I, this is known as men's work. And I've done this, I've, and I was so scared when I did that the first time I was like, this is. This is some, this is some this is, this [00:34:00] feels very gay. Not that gay is bad, or wrong, not at all, that's not what I'm saying, it's just not me.
And so it felt like this is awkward, it's I'm not into that's not my thing. And I felt very intimidated by it. I was like, this, no, I don't want to do this. And then I gave it a chance and I started opening up with other men and just talking about exactly the same things that you were talking about, like, how's your relationship, how are you feeling?
And I started opening up and wow, I felt such a weight lifted off my shoulders because what I used to do, and a lot of men do this, is we compare, oh man, how's it going? Oh yeah, it's going great, man. Yeah, I'm crushing it. Yeah, I know. Things are good. Yeah. Really good. Oh, yeah. Love it, man.
Awesome. Awesome. So it's all of that. So dropping the mask of having to be the alpha male the super successful man is hard in the beginning, but when you do it, at least for me, man, it was so liberating. And I felt such a deep connection, such a sense of brotherhood, which I think is missing in the [00:35:00] world of entrepreneurship.
It's missing in general, really is this sense of there's another man who's got you. He's not going to judge you if you're saying, man, it's not going well at the moment, I'm really scared, I'm just, I'm so stressed, I don't know where to go, left or right, I just don't know, and you're not going to have guys that laugh at you or, make, whatever, belittle you for that, they're just like, they're like, it's okay, I get it, I'm here to support you, and that created a sense of strength, a sense of trust, a sense of support, and I highly recommend, I think what you're doing is brilliant, I highly recommend all of your listeners to, join a men's group it doesn't have to be super intentional, it can literally be what you're saying, come together, let's watch something, let's have some fun, let's have a beer, and let's just have an open conversation.
Matt Edmundson: yeah. Yeah, exactly. And this is something I had to do. Do you know what I mean? And I, and this is, I say this to a lot of people all the time. They're waiting to be invited. Sometimes you have to create the space to invite people into. [00:36:00] I think especially without getting too philosophical, I think especially as you get older in life, I'm, I, my kids are now leaving home.
Things are a lot easier for me than they used to be in terms of time and space. And you I think it's incumbent upon people like me to go, actually no, come into my home, let's do this, and we have a mixture of ages of guys that come, but they, I trust all of them, it's listening to you talk, the brotherhood, I like that phrase I'm always reminded of that.
I think it was HBO did that series years ago called Band of Brothers which was a remarkable sort of televised story of this kind of thing. And and yeah, it's yeah. Okay. So if I'm a guy listening to this, go hang out with some other guys. What are some of the quick fire tips we've got in the closing minutes?
Mario from people who maybe in the beginning when you were going through the list, this is what burnout is. What are some of the best ways to do? So we've got relationships, we've got coaches, we've got people who can mirror things back to us. What are some of the other things that we can [00:37:00] do?
Maybe some of the quick wins.
Mario Lanzarotti: Breathing, intentional breathing. So many people breathe through their mouth. The mouth is not made for breathing, the mouth is made for eating and kissing. Obviously, your beloved ones,
And saying really smart and funny things, but seriously, breathing through the nose, intentionally breathing through the nose, in and out, and breathing into the stomach into the lower part of the lung.
lungs, because you just have so much more capacity, which means you're breathing in more oxygen, which means you're enriching your body with more fuel, with more energy. And I can promise you, right now, if you're listening to this, as you continue to listen, just take a few deep breaths, just in and out.
It makes such a difference. If you just did that for a few [00:38:00] moments every day, spread out through your day, watch, watch your life change for the better. So breathing, number one thing. Number two thing, get out into nature without technology. Walk into a forest. Go to the beach, if you're somewhere close to the beach go into the field, doesn't matter where it is, leave your phone at home, get your, put, take down your sunglasses, let your eyes get used to natural sunlight.
Ideally, take off your shoes, ground, put your naked feet on the floor, feel the earth, some of you might be like, oh, that's some woo stuff, whatever, disregard it, just do it. Just do it. When you were a child, you did that all the time and you felt like a happy Larry. You felt great. So do those basic things.
Another thing is drink more water. Definitely drink more water. Drink more water. Take, spend more time in silence. Just [00:39:00] with yourself. That's probably the hardest part for people that are constantly on the go train. Take out even five minutes to sit down and to just, when you're sitting down, just observe.
Just take a look at the thoughts and the feelings that you're experiencing because they're not your feelings and thoughts. They're happening. So just observe them and if you want to then take out a journal and just write down what keeps coming up for you, that's a great indicator for some things that You maybe want to take a closer look at, because those are the things that are really running your life from the background without you knowing it.
I'll keep it at that, and whoever wants more tips or more into depth conversation, reach out. I'm happy to chat.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Do that. I love that. One of the things that I've noticed I've noticed this with my kids, right? My kids are of a certain age where they never have never known what life is like without technology. In the sense that it almost felt like they came [00:40:00] out of, certainly for my daughter who's in my youngest child, she almost, it almost felt like she came out of the womb knowing how to swipe left, swipe right and work an iPad.
Do you know what I mean? It's just, it was just like, you put an iPad in the hand of a two year old, they can use it. It's the most extraordinary thing.
Mario Lanzarotti: Crazy.
Matt Edmundson: But, one of the things that I've been really keen on, uh, when I was a kid and we travelled in the car, for example, you had to stare out the window because there was nothing else to do, and I notice people now, if I'm in a queue some, because the British we like to queue but if you're in a queue, everybody in that queue is on their phone because they can't cope with this concept of boredom just being still with themselves in a lot of ways and I, it's one of those things I'm constantly challenging myself with, when I'm on a train, just look out the window I don't have to always be doing.
It's the, my friend Susan Kalinowski calls it the do to be like, we've got to do to be and. It's really fascinating [00:41:00] when you stop that, how uncomfortable you actually feel. Do you know what I mean, you're just I don't know what to do with myself, it just feels a bit wrong, it just feels a bit, and just.
So I'm a big fan of that. Just the sound of silence, as it were, just being silent, being still, being bored in a lot of ways, I think is crucial for creativity. But no, I love that. Love that. So Mario, if people do it, cause I'm aware of time here, if people do want to reach out, if they want to connect with you, find out more about, some of the stuff that you've talked about, what is the best way to do that?
Good, sir.
Mario Lanzarotti: I would say reach out on social media. I'm very active on LinkedIn, Instagram, and it's just my name, Mario, M A R I O, and then my last name, Lanzarotti, L A N Z A R O T T I, and I always love hearing from people and knowing what is it that resonated with you? What is it that didn't resonate with you?
And I'm not [00:42:00] there to be right or be the enlightened master. I'm learning all the time. I'm happy to be wrong. And for me it's just, it makes me happy to connect with people. that want to explore more of this world. And if I can be of any support or service, it would be an honor. And you can also look up my website.
It's just my full name, mariolanzarotti. com. And I'm very happy to hear from any of your listeners.
Matt Edmundson: fantastic. We will of course put all of those links in the show notes as well, which you can get along for free with a transcript on the website. And if, of course, if you subscribe to the newsletter, they'll be coming all directly to you straight. Just click the link in the email. But Mario, listen, thanks, man.
I, I think burnout is one of those hot topics at the moment. And I love eCommerce. I love what it can do. But I am very aware with eCommerce. You can be a very successful eCommerce entrepreneur with a laptop sitting around in your pajamas all day, which can be isolating. And it's so tempting to work 24 seven because it's all digital.[00:43:00]
And technology is a poor companion, I think, in a lot of ways. And so I see this being an issue. More and more. So it was great to have you come on and talk about it. Thanks for coming on. And of course, if you wanna also check out the episode we did on Push, it's pushtobemore.com just or push to be more, just search for that podcasting.
You'll find Mario's episode as well. So Mario, thanks man. Love this conversation as always, my friend. It's a great joy to talk to you. Really appreciate you coming on and sharing your wisdom, your thoughts, and your insights all the way from Cape Town. You're a legend, my friend.
Mario Lanzarotti: Thank you, Matt. I appreciate you having me on again. And as always, it's been a plump, pleasing pleasure. And yeah, I look forward to another conversation
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, we'll have to start another podcast and get you on that. What you said you do your you have a podcast. You mentioned that by the way, what's your
Mario Lanzarotti: too. It's called the Zenpreneur Podcast.
Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Obviously there'll be lots of information in that as well. So check that out. And of course, also a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the eCommerce Cohort.
Remember to check them out at ecommercecohort. [00:44:00] com in the monthly mastermind, the monthly membership, whatever you want to call it. We're in there every month. Come join us. It'd be great to see you. And also be sure to follow. Follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your podcasts from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them.
And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first person to tell you, you are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Mario has to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now the eCommerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.
And the team that makes this show possible is the beautiful, talented Sadaf Beynon, the equally Beautiful and talented Tanya Hutsuliak our theme song was written by the equally beautiful and talented Josh Edmundson. And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website, eCommercePodcast.
net. That's [00:45:00] eCommercePodcast. net where you can also sign up for the weekly newsletter that I've been talking about and make sure all of this good stuff comes direct to your inbox. So that's it from me. That's it from Mario. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.
I'll see you next time. Bye for now.
