Beyond Tired: Secrets to Beating Burnout in eCommerce | Mario Lanzarotti

Matt Edmundson

00:00:13.920 - 00:03:01.130

Well, hello and welcome to the E Commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmondson. Now this is a show all about helping you deliver E commerce. Wow. Oh yes.

And to help us do just that, today I am chatting with my very good guest, special guest, Mario Lanzarote from Six Figure Zen about the Zenpreneur approach to scaling your business without burnout. Yeah, we're going to take a slightly different tack today, ladies and gentlemen.

We're going to be talking about how to avoid burnout as e commerce entrepreneurs, amongst other things, with the legend that is known as Mario. But before we get into that, let me just remind you, if you are a regular show, this you will already know.

But if you're not for first time with us, warm welcome to you. It's great to have you with us.

Make sure you head over to the website ecommercepodcast.net make sure you hit the, you know, the button which says subscribe to the podcast, give us your email and we'll send you an email every week with the latest episode notes and all that sort of stuff in there that comes straight to your inbox totally for free, which is just medical and you never miss out on anything. So you know, I'm having conversations with Mario. You're going to want to take notes, you're going to want all the links. We send all that to you.

So just head over to e commercepodcast.net and make sure you sign up for that.

Now today's episode is made possible by the fabulous E Commerce Cohort, the monthly membership and mastermind group that you should definitely be a part of. If you're involved in E commerce. It is all about helping you grow and deliver E Commerce. Wow.

Every month there are expert workshops that you can join in. You can join in the podcast recordings, we stream them live into the cohort.

You can watch live, you can come along, you can ask yes questions, you can do all of that good stuff. Yes you can. Without any drama. So check it out. E commerce cohort.com I'm in there. Come join me. It'll be great to see you.

Now Mario Lanzarote is on more than just a TEDx speaker with nearly a million views.

He's the creator of the Zenpreneur method, a high performance coach who challenges the hustle and grind culture that's prevalent in entrepreneurship through his company, Six Figures. Then he helps agency owners scale to multi six figure levels without burnout.

And this actually, ladies and gentlemen, is the second podcast Mary and I have recorded. Yes.

If you don't know, I have a few different podcasts, one of which is called Push to be More where we talk with business leaders about all things business. And it's fair to say, Mario, that's where you and I met.

We had a great conversation on there, so we thought let's bring that over to the E commerce podcast. So welcome to the show, man. Welcome to this one. How are we doing?

Mario Lanzarotti

00:03:01.850 - 00:03:16.940

Matt, thank you so much for having me again, it's a pleasure to be here. I really enjoyed our first conversation. So I'm excited about this one and what nuggets we're going to extract for your amazing listeners.

And yeah, I'm just excited to be here today, friend.

Matt Edmundson

00:03:16.940 - 00:03:40.940

Well, it's good. I enjoyed, like you, I enjoyed the first conversation. I thought this would be great.

And it was, it was, it's fascinating because you've, you've coined this phrase Zenpreneur, which I love if I'm, I think it's very clever. You know, we, I've coined the phrase E Commercer.

I probably should trademark that if no one's done that already, you know, to talk about people in E commerce. But you've got this Zenpreneur thing. How did, how did that all come about?

Mario Lanzarotti

00:03:42.550 - 00:06:19.110

That's a good question. It came about out of my own waking up process, from a deep disappointment.

When I was working in New York City, I had a startup there, my first startup in E commerce. We were selling custom shoes that you could three design on our website. The brand was called all in Sundry.

And the reason I decided to become an entrepreneur is because I wanted freedom. I wanted to be able to decide how I work, where I work, how much I work. And I mainly wanted to feel that sense of freedom within myself.

And then fast forward two years into New York, I was burned out. I had panic attacks. I was never really present with people outside of work. I was working seven days a week.

And whenever I had a small break somewhere that was outside of work, what was I thinking about? More work? So I really felt that I didn't have any freedom. And that kept on perpetuating itself further into my entrepreneurial journey.

And at some point I realized that that freedom that I was looking for was something that I could not find outside of myself. It would, I couldn't find it in the money, I couldn't find it in living the remote lifestyle. You know, I was, I'm living in Cape Town now.

I was living in Mexico, in different places in Europe and United States. And you know, on the, on the surface my life Looked amazing. But on the inside, I didn't feel that.

I always felt that sense of whatever I do, it's just not enough. And I would pride myself with that.

Because if you look into the hustle and grind culture, the sensation of it's not enough, that feeling of not enough is a good thing because it keeps you pushing, it keeps you going forward. Now, for me, I was like, there has to be a better way.

Because whenever I did a meditation, whenever I did something that was for my well being, what I started to notice is that with that enhanced sense of well being, I was showing up differently. I was much more relaxed in my interactions with people.

I was much more present with what people were saying, which meant I could hear more and see more opportunities and I would sleep better. I would just make better decisions altogether.

And that's where I was like, okay, maybe there's a way to bring together that focus on well being and still connect it to high performance and success.

Matt Edmundson

00:06:23.430 - 00:06:25.110

So you crack the code, basically.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:06:26.640 - 00:06:28.080

Maybe. We'll see.

Matt Edmundson

00:06:29.680 - 00:07:45.910

Summarize. We've cracked the code, ladies and gentlemen, and this is great. And this is the conversation that we had on Push, wasn't it?

And we talked around this quite a bit and the challenges that you kind of went through in the business and so on and so forth. But today I wanted to get into this, specifically this code, for want of a better expression, where E com entrepreneurs are.

Because you've worked with E commerce entrepreneurs. You've. It sounds like you've done a few online things yourself. So you know, you know what it is to sit in that chair. And so let's.

I wanted to take a different, a slightly different tack because normally we talk about, you know, this is how you do E commerce better, or you know, we give tips and tricks on how to do that. So let's actually today focus on the E commerce, list the person listening themselves and talk about this idea of burnout.

Because it's a word which I've heard a lot. It's a word which I have seen or heard people use more and more frequently that they feel like they're experiencing burnout.

So let's start at the beginning. Mario, if we can, and use your expertise and all the stuff that you've learned along the way. How would you define burnout?

How would somebody know if they're going through something like burnout?

Mario Lanzarotti

00:07:46.960 - 00:09:54.630

Yeah, that's a great question. And I would say some of the symptoms to recognize that you are experiencing burnout are.

First of all, it's that sense of you're easily irritated that there's a sense of getting triggered by small things.

You might, you know, one of the people that you work with says, okay, I'm going to get you that, that thing by 3pm and it's 3:30 and you're starting to freak out on the inside. You, you're like, how dare this person. What's going on? This is not what I'm paying for. That kind of stuff.

You're not sleeping well, you're waking up, you're not feeling refreshed, but you're feeling kind of groggy. You need half a pot of coffee to get going. Maybe you need to have a shower first.

And it takes you half an hour, an hour to just start the engine for it to start running smoothly. Another sign is that there's a lack of focus, a lack of concentration, and you're easily distracted.

Instead of completing a task, you're flipping around and you're doing all four or five other things at the same time. And then there's just this overlying sensation of being tired. Like you arrive at the end of the day and you're crashing.

And you need a lot of coping mechanisms like binge watching Netflix, like excessive amounts of alcohol, weed. You need something to, to give yourself pleasure that doesn't come from within. Food is another. Is another thing.

And then come the weekend, Friday, you're like, God, it's Friday. And then there's this sense of ugh. And so when you're resting, the resting isn't really a regenerative resting, but it's more like a numbing.

It's more like a, my God, I'm just so tired. I just don't want to think about stuff. I just don't. Let me just go do anything so I can avoid whatever I'm really feeling.

So I say if you're dealing with those things, that's a good sign that you are experiencing burnout.

Matt Edmundson

00:09:56.310 - 00:10:45.010

As you're reading the list, I'm going and going, oh, I've not got that. Oh, I might have a better. Or I've not got that. And I'm just sort of doing this sort of mental checklist.

And so would it be fair to say, Mary, listening to you go through that? Which is a great list, by the way. Super helpful because it's very clarifying. There are degrees then of burnout on there.

So everything that you've talked about there is. It's not black or white. There's a scale.

There's a scale of how much I binge watch Netflix or How tired I wake up feeling in the morning, and so on and so forth. And so there's a. I suppose there's a scale of burnout, isn't there, that we can, that we can go through.

Are there sort of different stages that you've noticed with people, you know, sort of starting with some. Something quite mild at the top to, you know, full on burnout at the bottom that we kind of go through?

Mario Lanzarotti

00:10:45.810 - 00:13:48.280

Yeah, absolutely. And just like you said, it's never black or white. It's never like a. You know, my brand is called the Zenpreneur.

It's not that I'd never experience any of those things I do. The, the mastery process is recognizing that, oh, okay, I'm quite irritable today. It's like, okay, what's going on?

And then I can check in with myself. How much am I sleeping at the moment? How much time am I taking to work out? Like, just last week I noticed I got really unpresent.

I was rushing from one thing to the next, just one task, one meeting to the next. And then at the end of the day, I sat down and I noticed that I just wanted to binge watch something.

And when I had this desire for like some like, you know, quote unquote unhealthy food, like some fast food, and then I caught myself like, whoa. It's like, when was the last time I did nothing?

When was the last time I just went outside and I just sat down somewhere and I just enjoyed the sunset and I just, you know, decided to be with myself. And I was like, okay, I haven't been doing that for quite some time.

Even though I meditate every single day, my meditations, I'm doing their activation meditations. They're not just do nothing meditations. And sometimes it's important to do that. So I would say, to your point, not black and white. Very true.

And then, of course, as I just said, you will notice those signs.

And the thing is, if you're not trained, if you're not, if you have never sat down to exercise your awareness muscle, it's likely that those things will slip by you. And it's even more likely that you tell yourself, oh, this is just the way that it is.

And this is the challenge that I see with the whole hustle and grind culture where we make burnout almost a trophy. It's like, sleep is for losers. It's like, I could sleep when I'm dead. I used to say that I can sleep when I'm dead.

And, you know, like, we would I can still see this going on. A lot of people are just like using that as a means to justify not looking within themselves.

And the more you do this, the more of a ticking time bomb it is.

You might be irritable in the beginning, but at some point, what I see a lot, and that's really sad, is a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs are just numb. They just don't feel anything. They're just like. When I asked them what's going on? I don't know. I don't know. It's just, I don't know.

It's just nothing excites them anymore.

So they have to go for the bigger and bigger dopamine hits and they have to go for hit the next goal and the next goal, but the goal doesn't give nothing to them anymore. They might already have the money, but they feel empty on the inside.

And so when you're feeling empty on the inside, like I had a conversation the other day with a client. He told me that over the years he'd been doing this so much he didn't feel anything. When he got married.

Matt Edmundson

00:13:48.920 - 00:13:49.320

Wow.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:13:49.320 - 00:13:51.520

At his own wedding he didn't feel much.

Matt Edmundson

00:13:51.520 - 00:13:52.920

He's sad, that is.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:13:53.080 - 00:14:46.890

And he went through a whole life transformation. So, you know, kudos to him.

But there's a lot of people, especially men, because we're men, we're so rational, we're so head connected that we don't disconnect from our bodies that all we justify this. We try to think ourselves out of the things that are happening inside of us.

And at some point there's such a strong disconnect that then, you know, burnout is, is essentially a sensation of strongly accumulated stress. And over time that stress turns into disease.

And that's when we're talking cancer, that's when we're talking diabetes, that's when we're seeing, you know, high blood pressure. And you know, people might be saying, oh no, that's not correlated. But please take a look.

I mean, there are studies over studies over studies that show you the correlation between mind emotions and actual disease manifesting in the body.

Matt Edmundson

00:14:48.890 - 00:16:02.780

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's an, it's an interesting phrase you use that burnout is the, the accumulation of stress. And so we, we burn out because we have accumulated stress and we have not dealt with stress.

There's that old phrase, isn't they catch the foxes before they spoil the vineyard kind of thing or catch the little foxes before they spoil the vineyard.

And so it's easy I think, and I'm speaking from experience here, I'm an E commerce entrepreneur and you know, I, I can quite happily work 12, 13 hours a day sometimes just with everything that's going on and all the things that we need to do.

And you kind of, you know that you should probably just take a break, go for a walk, you know, these sort of little things, maybe even do a workout that day or whatever, but something sort of takes you away from it.

And when I find for me that actually when I am stressed, I tend to avoid those little things that actually make me well, for want of a better expression, those little things.

And so then I can see this accumulate, I can see with this phrase the accumulation of stress makes sense because I've not done the little things that sort of stop that early in its track.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:16:04.620 - 00:18:05.190

Yeah.

And you know, the conversation is also about, and this is really important because a lot of your listeners are probably like, yeah, sounds good, sounds nice, but I've got bills to pay, you know, I've got goals to hit and I get it.

And the whole notion that I'm bringing forward of the Zenpreneur is not well being at the expense of your performance of the results that you're creating in life. Quite the contrary. What I'm saying is that if you make your well being the priority, you're going to produce way bigger and better results.

Maybe not in the immediate short term, although now I'm already seeing that that not even that is accurate, but for sure in the long term. I mean, think about this. When you're feeling in your center, your decisions are clearer.

When you're in your center, you communicate better, which means the people that work with you, they understand you better. That means there's less conflict.

If there's less conflict, people are doing what they're supposed to be doing, which means tasks get done in time and in the way that you ask them to get done. And so also your creative thinking capacity, I mean if you cannot think creatively, you're lost.

I mean, you're just repeating stuff again and again and again and you're expecting a different outcome, which is the definition of insanity. So my idea is my, what I'm proposing is creating a foundation of well being.

That doesn't mean that you have to, like me, get up at five every day in the morning and have a three, four hour morning routine. That's, that's, I think that's a bit extreme for most people.

But seriously, just 20 minutes, 20 minutes of you sitting down and just focusing on your Breathing and just focusing on eating healthy and clean and drinking mostly water. And it's small shifts have such a quantum impact on the way that you operate as a business owner.

Matt Edmundson

00:18:05.830 - 00:19:14.010

Yeah, and actually we see that in eco, we talk about this in E Commerce, we talk about the rule of 1%, which is actually if I can increase things by 1%, then the overall impact on the business is quite extraordinary. If I can increase my conversion rate by 1%, if I can increase my open rate by 1%.

And so quite often in E Comm, we're looking for the what's going to grow my business, you know, what's going to double it in the next 12 months, which is fine if you're starting up, but actually if you've been around for a while, the better question it seems to ask is, you know, where can I find these 1% gains? Because actually it has a profound impact on everything. And that's. We talk about that in E Commerce because it works. Right?

And what you're talking about here is physically going, where are the 1% gains? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, you know, where, where are those gains that can help me? Because I.

And again, I don't know if you found this to be your experience, Mary. I know if I try and change too much overnight, it, it's, it doesn't really last because I've run out of steam, I run out of energy.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:19:14.650 - 00:21:53.780

Yep, same. I mean, it's. I love using the gym analogy.

If you're going to the gym and your biceps is at a, for lack of a better description, at a level one and you want to ultimately get to a level 10, if you try to get there in two days, you're going to rip your muscles apart and you're going to eat. You're going to be able to do nothing for a couple months because you tried so hard to push into that.

So the philosophy is, you know, that what you're bringing for 1 1% every day is essentially a Zen philosophy which is all about detaching yourself from the outcome. If you detach yourself from the outcome, let's say your goal is to generate $50,000 per month with your business. Right.

In revenue or an income, whatever, wherever you're at. And you're so caught up on that goal, you're like, I gotta get to this goal, I gotta get to this goal. I gotta get to this goal.

What happens is you get tense, your body creates an additional amount of stress, chronic stress. And so you start making decisions from a reactive place. You start trying to cut corners, you Try to engage in unethical practices.

You're trying to, you know, deny your own commitments or the commitments you made to other people. And you, you create a lot of problems.

But if you detach from the goal, which doesn't mean, whatever, screw it, I don't care, it just means that you focus on what's in your hand right now, in this moment, right?

The, the, there's a Zen, Zen story of a student that goes to the master and the student asked the master, master, master, how do I become enlightened? And the master tells him, chop wood, carry water. And what does that mean? You focus on what's in your control every day.

You do the basics, you focus on the things that are really there sustainably to create long term success. And if you just do that every single day, it will be inevitable for you to create the success you want.

But the beautiful thing is that, and that is you remove all of that anxiety, you remove all of that chronic stress because you're not attached to the outcome. You're in the moment, you're in the process.

That's how the best players in sports, why they're so good, if you look at a Ronaldo in, in soccer or football or a Messi, they're not like, they didn't start out with like, I gotta win, I gotta win, I gotta win. They were in love with the sport. They just, if you see them play, they're in the moment. That's why they're so genius.

And the same applies to e commerce owners or entrepreneurs.

Matt Edmundson

00:21:54.500 - 00:23:44.160

Yeah, absolutely. It's a fascinating day. Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it?

I think my general observation is it's very similar in the sense that if you have a goal and you've read all the goal setting books and you've got smart goals and Life goals and 5 year goals and 10 year goals and big hairy audacious goals and all the goals you can possibly think of. And I'm not belittling them at all, I think it's useful to think about those kind of things. For me, it's more about the journey than the destination.

I think is, you know, I think it was John Maxwell that said success is a journey, not a destination, which I think is a really interesting phrase.

And so doing what you're in, you know, doing what's in front of you today, I think, you know, how do you, how do you eat the elephant one bite at a time, right? It's just, you just do what you can do in front of you. And I Found that actually having, having a. I don't know if I.

Having more of a vision, a mission, a sort of a purpose statement is sort of guiding values and principles I find slightly more helpful, if that makes sense. That's not to deny the goals because we, we have targets, we have goals at work.

But going back to your football analogy or soccer, to our American cousins, for me, your goals are very, you know, your goal is to score a goal, is to win the game. I've got to score goals. You score a few of those in a 90 minute period.

Most of those 90 minutes is trying to keep the ball within the boundaries of that field and, you know, in a way that makes sense for you and to be successful at that point in time. For me, that's the values, that's the culture, that's the boundaries, that's where I'm willing to play.

And sometimes I've got to go backwards to go forwards and I need that free flow and then ultimately it's going to end up in the back of the net.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:23:44.720 - 00:26:24.930

Yeah. I'll give you an example. So in my world, in the world of coaching, I work in the world of high ticket, high ticket sales.

So that means that whenever I'm on a sales call with a person, the majority of thinking goes towards your goal is to close the sale. Now what happens when I focus on the goal is to close the sale, the mentally I am aligning myself with, I need to get to that place.

And often what happens is with people is you forget that there's another human being right in front of you. And so you make it about the sale, you don't make it about the person.

And so now when I show up on a call with a person, my focus, my goal is to deliver as much value as I can, which means the whole conversation is about value. And then at the end, my sales conversion rate goes up significantly. I do this with all my clients.

Every single one of them reports increase in sales conversion. And another thing is, even if they say no, they don't leave the call with like, oh man, I failed. Oh God, this was terrible.

No, they leave the call feeling empowered because they delivered so much value. And they're like, this was fun. I feel, I feel like, appreciate it because I just did something that feels right to me.

And so naturally, when you show up this way, what happens? Well, Mario, you know, this is just not the solution for me. But you've been so helpful to me today. Let me connect you to my buddy Matt.

I think Matt would be a great person for you to speak to. Now this is how you get referrals willingly from people because you're a genuine person. You Talked about my TEDx talk, right?

My TEDx talk is almost at 1.5 million views now. You've asked, what's your secret? How did you do it? I didn't hire an agency. I didn't invest a single dollar in ads.

My strategy was to deliver value and to show up from a place of love. I had so many people reshare this talk when it came out because I've left an imprint on them. Whenever I show up on a call, I make it about them.

I want to deliver value to you, I want to get into your world and I want to do something for you in whatever capacity I can. And you know, that has always created success for me of, you know, ever since I've applied these principles, I never went back to struggling.

I never went back to like, oh man, I'm not going to show how this month is going to be. You know, there's been ups and downs for sure, but the times that I experienced in New York, they're over.

Because back when I was living in New York, I definitely did not show up from this place.

Matt Edmundson

00:26:25.340 - 00:26:59.390

Yeah, that's, that's really. I'm listening to you talking, I'm going, yeah, I can understand. I mean we sell high ticket items that I get. I like the sound of what you're saying.

I guess I'm kind of thinking here, how would that, if I'm an E commerce entrepreneur listening to this, how would, how would that make sense? How would that translate when I'm not doing calls with clients, for example? Because I love this concept.

I mean we talk about it a lot on the in cohort, for example, e Commerce cohort, about delivering value, understanding your customer, understand the customer story. I'm curious from your point of view, how you see that working in E commerce.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:27:00.670 - 00:30:16.010

Well, E commerce, the way that I understand it is, you know, you're selling products, you're selling products, you're selling services. But ultimately there's a, you're dealing with people.

And whenever you're dealing with people, you can either make it outcome based or you can make it service based.

So if I take this, translate this to my team, if all I focus on with my team is the outcome of how they're performing, I'm going to miss out on the human element and I'm going to create this robotic environment where people are afraid of their own human nature. And it's all about, you got to Deliver. You got to deliver. We all know that business is about creating results.

Otherwise, it would be philanthropy or a hobby. So we all know that that's the bottom line. But if you can treat people from a place of focusing on service, how can I serve you?

How can this person that works for me as a business owner, how can I serve them? I'll give you an example. I have a virtual assistant that's been working with me for years.

What I did with her is I gave her coaching calls once a month. I said, come, I'll coach you for free because you're working. I'm treating you like you're a partner, like you're part of my family.

And I did that for her. And, you know, the work that she produced and the willingness of showing up for me just skyrocketed.

She told me, you know, not too long ago, she edits my podcasts, and she's like, mario, I love editing your podcast. I learned so much, like, working with you is just amazing. And I love the work that she produces. It's great. And so that's just one example.

And then when it comes to E Commerce, I'm assuming it's very important for people there to create strategic alliances, strategic partnerships with other brands. If you just rely on cold traffic, if you just rely on paid traffic, you can only go so far.

So when I was running my E Commerce brand all in Sundry in New York, we bootstrapped the whole business. We didn't have money to invest, but what we had was a cool product. And what we had was two young men who were full of passion and excitement.

We piggybacked on so many big brands. We collaborated with Sony, the Blacklist, the.

The TV show, NFL super bowl champions, Cam Chancellor, CBS morning show hosts, you know, real estate tycoons in New York. And we didn't pay anything. Nothing. They often put up the cost for us at the events. We piggybacked on them.

But what we did was we understood who they are, and. And we tried to serve them through what we offered and bring into their way of being into their brand. So we designed shoes for them.

We made them look extra good. We portrayed them like the absolute champions, and they love what we did. And so they kept introducing us to other VIP clients.

And that's how we, you know, we even ended up the CEO of Google was one of our clients, also came through referrals. We had another billionaire client, also came through referrals. Right.

All of this happened mostly word of mouth, and that was a result of Us focusing on service, not so much on what can we get from you.

Matt Edmundson

00:30:16.090 - 00:31:13.730

Yeah, super powerful. And I think there's a lot of lessons in that, just general business lessons, isn't there?

If you focus on serving, focus on delivering value, the referrals then come. That's my experience.

And referrals is the best form of marketing because not only is it cheaper, it's the people that come to you through that have been referred tend to have a much higher lifetime value, to put it in e comm terms. And so they're always the best clients. You know, referred podcast guests are always the best podcast guests in a lot of ways.

And it's, it's really fascinating. So all that was for free, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to bring it back to burnout a little bit now.

Before we hit the record button, Mary, you were talking about how that a lot of the ecom entrepreneurs, you know, they work by themselves and are sat in front of a computer. And so what are some of the things that we need to think about? If, if, if I'm listening to the podcast and that that specifically refers to me.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:31:14.450 - 00:31:32.890

Yeah, if you're an E commerce entrepreneur. And often what I see is called the lone wolf syndrome. You're where all I see is my own world. I see the.

I see myself only through my own eyes, which means I cannot see my own blind spots.

Matt Edmundson

00:31:33.210 - 00:31:33.690

Yeah.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:31:33.690 - 00:34:04.970

And which means I'm always accustomed to knowing and seeing how I feel and look. And so for me it's like, ah, you know, it's not that bad. Whatever, you know, sleeping four hours, three hours, two hours, it's not that bad. Right.

So we need people, we need people to reflect ourselves because in relationships we get to see who we are and we get to see how we're showing up in the world. And so for a solo e commerce entrepreneur, it's so important to have people in your life as a support network.

You know, whether that is friends, whether it's family.

Ideally you want to have coaches, mentors, you know, even, even therapists that, that reflect you so that you get to see the things that you're not seeing. Because those are the things that are costing you.

Yeah, they're costing you your relationships, they're costing you your health, and they're costing you, quite frankly, business opportunities. They're costing you wealth and, you know, they're costing you precious life.

Because if you're only sitting in front of your computer and all you're doing is work in front of your computer and you don't have A life outside of that. I mean, do you have a life at all? I had a conversation the other day with a, you know, a very successful coder.

He's in the seven to eight figure space. And he came to me because he's like, I don't feel anything anymore. I don't really have any relationships anymore.

And all I'm doing is I'm working and working and working and working and it's just so stressful. I hate it. And I'm like, why are you doing all of that? He's like, I don't know, I don't know. It's the money.

And I was like, well, why are you making the money? And he, he just couldn't answer the question.

I went deeper and deeper and he said, and eventually he told me, oh, so that one day I can, you know, support a family and said, do you see the conundrum here?

It's like you're isolating yourself so much to the point that you finally have the money to give yourself permission to start building relationships with people. Don't you want to start doing that now? And he's like, oh, oh, I never thought about that. I didn't even know why I'm doing what I'm doing so much.

And this is, this is the fate that I see so many business owners in E commerce, they're just working really, really hard, but they don't really know why they're doing it. They have something that's guiding that, but they don't question it. And so you need people to reflect you and to help you see what you're not seeing.

Because only then can you adopt a more effective and a healthier and a more aligned way of living.

Matt Edmundson

00:34:05.600 - 00:36:02.440

Yeah, super powerful. Super powerful. I, and I couldn't agree more. You know, I talk once a month to several people who I'd call coaches and mentors and I'm a big fan of.

I would call it community. I'm a big fan of the relationship. I'm a, you know, and I think, I think you have to be intentional in a lot of this. It just doesn't happen.

This is my experience in life, you know, and so. Well, I was talking about this the other day with someone whereby every.

I'm a big Liverpool Football Club fan and I'm sorry if you don't support Liverpool Football Club, but I do. And, and so what, Whenever there's a game on TV, we have a room in the house which during lockdown we turn into a bit of a home cinema.

You know, we put A bigger screen in there, a nice surround sound. And I'm like, right, Every. Every game that's on TV, we have a WhatsApp group that is constantly getting bigger. And I'm just.

There's a group of guys because I think it's good when men get together with men. I'm not saying it has to be like that all the time, but there's something quite powerful about men and getting together with men.

And I'm like, right, guys, listen. We're watching the football. Feel the freedom. Who's coming round? And we'll, you know, we'll throw some food on the barbecue or whatever, and we'll.

We'll just spend a few hours. You know, there's a few beers, there's a football game, and there's just guys with banter.

But all of those guys that come round intentionally, we've all agreed that what we're going to do every now and again, just as, you know, it's not weird, and it just. It's. It's not all the time, but we're just going to go now, how are you really doing, Jeremiah? And ask the odd question like, how's your marriage?

You know, these questions that men sort of feel uncomfortable asking other men. And we do that when there's football and there's nowhere to hide in a lot of ways. And it's really, really good.

It's really, really important, I think, to do things like that.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:36:02.760 - 00:38:14.630

Yeah. Yeah. I. This is. This is known as men's work. And I've done this. I've. And I was so scared when I did that the first time. I was like, this is. This is.

This is some. You know, this is some. This is. This feels very gay. Not that gay is bad or wrong. Not at all. That's not what I'm saying. It's just not me.

And so I felt like. Like, this is. This is awkward. It's like, I'm. I'm not into that. That's not my thing. And I felt very intimidated by it. I was like this.

Like, no, I don't want to do this.

And then I gave it a chance, and I started opening up with other men and, like, just talking about exactly the same things that you were talking about. How's your relationship? You know, how are you feeling? And I started opening up and. Wow. Wow. I felt.

I felt such a weight lifted of my shoulders because what I used to do. And a lot of men do. This is. We compare. Oh, man. How's it going? Oh, yeah, it's going great. Man. Yeah, I'm crushing it. Yeah, I know.

Things are good, you know, really good. Oh, man. Love it, man. Awesome. Awesome. So it's all of that.

So dropping the mask of having to be the alpha male, the super successful man, is hard in the beginning, but when you do it, at least for me, man, it was so liberating. And I felt such a deep connection, such a sense of brotherhood, which I think is missing in the world of entrepreneurship.

I mean, it's missing in general, really, is this sense. Sense of, like, there's another man who's got you. Like, he. He's not going to judge you if you're saying, man, it's not going well at the moment.

I'm really scared. You know, I'm. I'm just. I'm so stressed. I don't know where to go, left or right. I just don't know.

And you're not going to have guys that laugh at you or, you know, make whatever belittle you for that. They're just like. They're like, it's okay. I get it. You know, I'm here to support you.

And that created a sense of strength, a sense of trust, a sense of support, and. Highly recommend. I think what you're doing is brilliant. I highly recommend all of your listeners to, you know, join a men's group.

It doesn't have to be super intentional. It can literally, what you're saying, come together. Let's watch something.

Let's have some fun, let's have a beer, and let's just have an open conversation.

Matt Edmundson

00:38:14.710 - 00:39:41.720

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is. And this is something I had to do, Jermaine and I. And this is. I say this to a lot of people all the time.

You know, they're waiting to be invited. Sometimes you have to create the space to invite people into, I think, especially without getting too philosophical.

I think, especially as you get older in life. You know, I'm. I'm. My kids are now leaving home. Things are a lot easier for me than they used to be in terms of time and space.

And so I think it's incumbent upon people like me to go, actually, no, come into my home. Let's do this. You know, and we have a mixture of ages of guys that come, but they. I trust all of them. You know, it's.

Listening to you talk, the brotherhood. I like that phrase. I'm. I'm always reminded of that.

I think it was HBO did that series years ago called Band of Brothers, which was a remarkable sort of, sort of televised story of this. This Kind of thing. And, and so, yeah, I. It's. Yeah. So, okay, so if I'm. If I'm a guy listening to this, go hang out with some other guys.

What are some of the quick fire tips we've got in the closing minutes? Mario, from people who maybe in the beginning when you were going through the list, you, you know, this is what burnout is.

What are some of the best ways to do so? We've got relationships, we've got coaches, we've got people who can mirror things back to us. What are some of the other things that we can do?

Maybe some of the quick wins.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:39:42.200 - 00:42:33.090

Yeah. Breathing. Intentional breathing. So many people breathe through their mouth. The mouth is not made for breathing.

The mouth is made for eating and kissing, obviously, you know, your beloved ones and saying really smart and funny things. But seriously, breathing through the nose. Intentionally breathing through the nose, in and out and breathing into the stomach, right.

For into the lower part of the lungs.

Because you just have so much more capacity, which means you're breathing in more oxygen, which means you're enriching your body with more fuel, with more energy. And I can promise you right now, if you're listening to this, as you continue to listen, just take a few deep breaths. Just in and out.

It makes such a difference. If you just did that for a few moments every day. Spread out through your day. Watch. Watch your life change for the better.

So breathing, number one thing. Number two thing, get out into nature without technology. Walk into a forest, go to the beach.

If you're somewhere close to the beach, like, go into the field. Doesn't matter where it is. Leave your phone at home. Take down your sunglasses. Let your eyes get used to natural sunlight.

Ideally, take off your shoes, ground. Put your naked feet on the floor. Feel the earth. You know, some of you might be like, oh, that's some woo stuff. You know, whatever. Disregard it.

Just do it. Just do it. When you were a child, you did that all the time and you felt like a happy Larry. You felt great. So do those basic things.

Another thing is drink more water. Definitely drink more water. Drink more water. Spend more time in silence just with yourself.

That's probably the hardest part for people that are constantly on the go on the go train. But take out even five minutes to sit down and to just. When you're sitting down, just observe.

Just take a look at the thoughts and the feelings that you're experiencing. Because you're not. Your feelings and thoughts, they're happening. So just observe them.

And if you want to, then take out A journal and just write down what keeps coming up for you.

That's a great indicator for some things that you maybe want to take a closer look at because those are the things that are really running your life from the background without you knowing it. So I'll keep it at that. And you know, whoever wants more tips or more into, into depth conversation, you know, reach out, I'm happy to chat.

Matt Edmundson

00:42:33.250 - 00:44:35.570

Yeah, yeah, do that. I love that. One of the things that I've noticed, I've noticed this with my kids, right?

My kids are of a certain age where they have never known what life is like without technology, right. In the sense that it almost felt like they came out of.

Certainly for my daughter, who's my youngest child, she almost, almost felt like she came out of the womb knowing how to swipe left, swipe right and work an iPad. Do you know what I mean? It was just like you put an iPad in the hand of a two year old, they can use it. It's the most extraordinary thing.

Crazy, but one of the things that I've been really keen on when I was a kid and we traveled in the car, for example, you had to stare out the window because there was nothing else to do, you know. And I notice people now if I'm in a queue some, because the British, we like to queue.

But if you're in a queue, everybody in that queue is on their phone because they can't cope with this concept of boredom. Just being still with themselves in a lot of ways. And it's one of those things I'm constantly challenging myself with.

You know, when I'm on a train, just look out the window. I don't have to always be doing, doing, doing. It's the. My friend Susan Kalinowski calls it the do to be lie. You know, we've got to do to be.

And it's really fascinating when you stop that, how uncomfortable you actually feel. Do you know what I mean? You just kind of like, I don't know what to do with myself. It just feels a bit wrong. It just feels a bit.

And just, you know, so I'm a big fan of that. Just, you know, the sound of silence, as it were. Just being silent, being still, being bored in a lot of ways I think is crucial for creativity.

Yeah, but no, love that, love that.

So Mario, if people do, because I'm aware of time here, if people do want to reach out, if they want to connect with you, find out more about, you know, some of the stuff that you've talked about, what is the best way to do that. Good, sir.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:44:36.690 - 00:45:29.530

I would say reach out on social media. I'm very active on LinkedIn, Instagram, and you know, it's just my name, Mario M A R I O and then my last name, Lanzaroti.

L A N Z A R O T T I and I always love hearing from people and knowing what is it that resonated with you? What is it that didn't resonate with you? And you know, I'm not there to be right or be the enlightened master. I'm learning all the time.

I'm happy to be wrong. And for me it's, it's just, it makes me happy to connect with people that want to explore more of this world.

And if I can be of any support or service, it would be an honor. And you know, you can also look up my website. It's just my full name, Mario Lanzaroti and I'm very happy to hear from any of your listeners.

Matt Edmundson

00:45:29.930 - 00:46:38.590

Fantastic. We will of course put all of those links in the show notes as well, which you can get along for free with a transcript on the website.

And of course, if you subscribe to the newsletter, they'll be coming all directly to you straight. Just click the link in the email. But Mario, listen, thanks man. I, I think burnout is one of those hot topics at the moment and I, I love E commerce.

I love what it can can do.

But I am very aware with E commerce, you can be a very successful E commerce entrepreneur with a laptop sitting around in your pajamas all day, which can be isolating. And it's so tempting to work 247 because it's all digital and technology is a poor companion, I think, in a lot of ways.

And so I see this being an issue more and more. So it was great to have you come on and talk about it. Thanks for coming on.

And of course, if you want to also check out the episode we did on push, it's pushtobemore.com just or push to be more to search for that podcast and you'll find Mario's episode as well. So Mario, thanks man. Love this conversation as always, my friend. It's a great joy to talk to you.

Really appreciate you coming on, sharing your wisdom, your thoughts and your insights all the way from Cape Town. You're a legend, my friend.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:46:39.230 - 00:46:46.990

Thank you, Matt. I appreciate you having me on again and as always, it's been a plum pleasing pleasure. And yeah, I look forward to another conversation.

Matt Edmundson

00:46:47.470 - 00:46:54.370

Yeah, we'll have to start another podcast and get you on what you said you do your. You have a podcast. You mentioned that. By the way. What's your podcast?

Mario Lanzarotti

00:46:54.370 - 00:46:56.890

I do. It's called the Zenpreneur podcast.

Matt Edmundson

00:46:57.130 - 00:48:27.720

Fantastic. Obviously there'll be lots of information in that as well. So check that out.

And of course also a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the E Commerce Cohort.

Remember to check them [email protected] in the monthly Mastermind, the monthly membership, whatever you want to call it, we're in there every month. Come join us. Be great to see you.

And also be sure to follow the E Commerce podcast wherever you get your your podcast from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first person to tell you. You are awesome. Yes, you are created awesome.

It's just a burden you have to bear. Mario has to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the E Commerce Podcast is produced by Orient Media.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast podcast app. And the team that makes this show possible is the beautiful, talented Sadaf Banon, the equally beautiful and talented Tanya Hutzilak.

Our theme song was written by the equally beautiful and talented Josh Edmondson.

And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website ecommercepodcast.net that's ecommercepodcast.net where you can also sign up for the weekly newsletter that I've been talking about and make sure all of this good stuff comes direct to your inbox. So that's it from me. That's it from Mario. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.

I'll see you next time. Bye for now.

Mario Lanzarotti

00:48:39.570 - 00:49:05.340

Sa it.