Turn Boring Product Listings into James Bond Adventures with AI | Matt Anderson

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Matt Edmundson: Well, hello, I'm Matt Edmundson and you are listening to the eCommerce Podcast. Uh, now I've been around eCommerce since 2002, which I appreciate is a very, very long time. And during that time, you know what the biggest challenge I faced, it wasn't finding products or building websites. It was finding. The right partners, the right people who could help me grow beyond my own limitation. And that's why these days I partner with eCommerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit. And if you'd like to know more about that and more about how that works, just head over to the website eCommerce Podcast dot net 'cause it's all there.

Uh, come join it. Come say, how's it now? Today I'm joined by Matt Anderson from Dragonfly. AI and we're gonna be looking at this fascinating place where e-commerce, AI, and brand all collide together now. Ai. Think about it, right? You've used it, you've used chat. [00:01:00] GPT, if you're like me, you're a big fan of Claude.

How many of you have done that thing where you've just asked chat, GPT or Claude for a, for a piece of content, uh, and they give it to you and that's it. You just use that. There's no, there's no filter. There's no quality control. We all know that there should be one, right? We genuinely do. But we just don't do it mainly 'cause we're time conscious.

Well, that's what we're gonna get into, uh, today, all this kind of stuff. Matt, I'm curious, when did you first sort of come across this as a big problem that people were having?

Matt Anderson: Um, well thank you for, for having me on, first and foremost. Um. I think well o over the last sort of year to 18 months, um, I mean, AI first and foremost rolled back. AI has been around for a while now. Um, you know, a,

a good decade or so, anyone that's used I. To auto correct on, on their, on their phone or

Grammarly and those kind of things.

I mean, that's

all type

type of AI uh, you could say. So, but I mean, [00:02:00] I think, I guess really very much in the last sort of. Six to 12 months, the world of sort of chat GPTs become on, on, on the, the mainstream conscious really. Um, and then all the other plethora of, of ai, has roll rolled on from that. I know, we are at the point that Pandora's box is open.

Um, and perhaps I think people are starting to understand the power of ai. Um, and I think, but also, you know, there's, there's skepticism and, and also, um, some. Somewhat of a fear and trepidation. Anyone who's seen Trump's video recently about Garza know exactly what I'm talking about, you know? So there's that, issue there that not only, not only what, you know, the content that we're pushing out, but the content we're consuming.

There's there's the lack of a filter really

at the moment. I think, um, uh, governments and organizations are, are, are, you know, I think it's fair enough, uh, are are playing catch up there regarding that. Um. What I would say [00:03:00] is ai, um, and, and, and we're, and I'll talk about different types of ai, but AI at the moment, um, is very much dependent on how quality of the data that you're putting in and also the quality of the prompt engineering and this term

about prompting.

How

good is the prompt that you're giving, giving the, the AI is very much dependent on the quality of content you get, you're getting out. Um, but also many organizations, um, and as they say, and the world of sellers and, and, and, and eCommerce sort of small one man bands and what have you or one woman bands

are,

uh, not putting the checks and balances in place about the contents coming out.

Um, 'cause certain AI can hallucinate, as they say in the traders though, it'll come to a point where it can't really find the facts or, or understand the subject and it'll make a fact up,

you know,

um, and a percentage up and what have you. And certain AI out there is better at qualifying it, like perplexity for example.

It'll reference,

[00:04:00] you know, it'll give you a statin and give you a reference, but, you know, that is a limitation of, of, of chat, GPT and, and, and also clawed as well, so. We need to have those sort of checks and balances. And the way I always refer to it's like, if you're using ai, AI as a copilot, it is like a, um, for both fans by the way.

But I would say like, this is like having a, a, master's graduate next year that's just entered your business, but they don't, they don't know all the facts about your product and what you do and what you sell. So you have to sort of have that feedback loop really with,

with with the ai. Just to just double check really.

Um, So having sys good, good systems and sos in place is, is one thing really. Um, um, I very much so to, to, to

be aware of. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: isn't it, that we, um, because I was talking to someone earlier, we're doing a website review

Matt Anderson: Hmm.

Matt Edmundson: looking at the website and I'm kinda like, I'm reading the content. I'm like, did AI [00:05:00] write this? You and,

and I feel like we've got to the phase where actually humans are now starting to quite quickly and easily recognize when AI creates content. Um, there, there's certain tells isn't there? Like if you ask it to write a headline, it will always write a statement with a colon followed by another statement and it it, it drives me absolutely nuts. Right? And we can, and you can see it straight off the bat.

And

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: this case of whenever it was 18 months ago in chat, GPT sort of exploded on the scene.

You're like, flip at it, can write all this amazing content. And it did, but it's very AI content. And actually now I think not only can computer spot AI content, but we where humans are very good at sort of subconsciously spotting AI content. that a bad thing? yes, but I think possibly no.

But I think like the website I was referring to, uh, looking at this [00:06:00] morning, it just felt all a bit dry, if I'm honest with you, Matt, and all a

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: and all a bit dull and I think I. This seems to be with the default kind of prompts. Like if you go to chat GP, T and C, give me some product copy for this widget. It's just gonna give you fairly average content because it's taken the sum of all the parts from the website to create that content. I would've thought.

Matt Anderson: Yeah, I think it's, uh, it is referencing the, the content within the large language model. Essentially a lot of the, um. Generative ai, which is like, if you look at step by step, by step, it it's basically learning through, uh, machine learning. So it is going, oh, well you said this and you said that, so you most likely mean this.

Uh, or it's going step by step by step. And that's hence why the prompts are so important because you can say, okay, I want you to act like a e-commerce copywriter, and I want write, I want you to write a copy for a female audience, not a

male audience. And I want you to be, [00:07:00] you know, and be very. Specific about the audience and, and, and that, you know, subconsciously a human copywriter that's been around the, around for a while will, will, you know, make those decisions again.

Oh, right. I'm writing for a female audience and it's about baking and I'm gonna be writing about, and these kind of phrases are gonna resonate with my target audience.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Anderson: Ai. Doesn't know that to start off with. So you have to sort of give it those prompts to sort of steer it down the right track. Um, and also you can refer a little tip for when using Claude, you can write a piece of copy yourself and go, Claude, when now you've looked at like the

bare bones of this article, can you, this, this piece of text as as a tone of voice and, and write in my tone of voice and you'll get a better output.

So giving, giving the. The AI those steers are very important because I think, you know, we perhaps most, most of it's coming into it, you think, oh, it's amazing. There's this black [00:08:00] box. I can just ask you to do anything. And it's amazing. It'll just spit out, start spitting out content and doing work for me,

and we get all giddy and, and start firing off all sorts of prompts.

Um, but with, perhaps give it, give AI as it is at the moment, are too much, um. Too much kudos about the, how intelligent it is at, at, at the

generative level.

Um. but there's the next wave of ai. Um, and, you know, um, I'd say like the better, the better ones out there. The claw, the deep seeks the, um, rock is pretty impressive as well.

Um, are start starting to work towards a generative ai. So generative AI is basically starts to use initiative. so. can imagine like your, your grad analogy, what, when you've had a grad work for you for sort of 18 months, two years, they start to be able to

Oh,

right. Well, they know the ropes, they know what's good and what's bad, and

they can make, they can use their own initiative.

And I think that's [00:09:00] what, that's the next sort of leap within, within a, um, AI that once that becomes main mainstream, it can get, it can be really, really super powerful.

I

think.

Uh, um, and

I think that's where, where we're sort of moving to.

Matt Edmundson: It's interesting, isn't it, because. Um, it's the logical place, I think for AI to move to now. Is, is that side of things. I mean, the latest release of Claude, I can't remember what Claude we're on sonnet something or other,

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: out a week or two ago. Uh, here it is, Claude 3.7 sonnet. I think it's,

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: it's just stepped up the game quite a bit, you know, I,

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: where it was even previously.

So you can see that there are these rapid improvements. Um. And I get what you're saying about the prompting and, and telling it to the sort of the style, the tone of voice and how important that is and getting that right and not assuming that it will know. I remember, uh, recently a [00:10:00] friend of mine, he, he, he's released, he's launched, uh, or he's acquired actually a, um, an airsoft business, you know.

Um, and I have a slight interest in Airsoft having two sons, uh, who like to shoot each other, you know, with various plastic balls.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: so he asked me what I thought about the site, and I thought, well, again, the product copies, you've just copied that from the manufacturer and put it on your website. And so within sort of a, I guess 10 minutes of playing around with some prompts on, chat GPT or Claude, I can't remember which one we used, 'cause that was the one that he had. We found that actually if we put into chat, GPT, um, can you please rewrite this copy in the style of a James Bond novel?

And actually. And, and by the way, you are aiming at people who've, who want to be James Bond in their sort of twenties and thirties, right? Who feel like they should belong to some secret service type [00:11:00] affair. And actually, I. did a really good first job. So you, if you just take the copy and tell it to rewrite it, it's still gonna be boring. But given it this direction, given it that prompt, it was some of the best product copy I've read, I've read for a long time actually, uh, when we introduced this

Matt Anderson: Yep.

Matt Edmundson: James Bond and, and I think giving Claude and Chat GPT, that information just. Really is helpful. So I think what you said is super important. Get the prompts right, understand your tone of voice, and I think understand your tone of voice as it relates to your client. I would've thought, you know, who, who your customers are and what makes sense for them. and I think that is, gonna have a big impact just on the copy on your website. So now we're moving into generative ai. And by the way, just to say ladies and gentlemen, uh, if you are enjoying conversations like this. Uh, then why not come and join our monthly Cohort calls? We've got one in Australia, we've got one in the uk. We're just about to start one in the us [00:12:00] They're basically free set, uh, free calls.

Basically we, we, jump on, uh, on Zoom, uh, as founders, uh, e-commerce founders, we share ideas, share thoughts, um, and just. Figure out how we can do eCommerce better. So if you are in the eCommerce space, uh, and would like to join our Cohort, why not come network, come meet with people. Uh, more information at eCommerce Podcast dot net at breakover. Uh, Matt, so

let's talk about generative ai. This is, like you say this, I, I like again, your, your graduate. This is where they've learned a little bit and now they're starting to be a lot more creative and a lot more playful. This is where I. People start to get a little bit more scared though, because if I think of Cyberdyne systems, you know, from Terminator, it started to learn,

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: and then Sarah Connor and, and all that sort of stuff had to happen. so how have you, have you put all of this [00:13:00] together? Are you excited by it? Do you think we're all going to, you know, get taken over by robots?

Matt Anderson: Um, well, I think that taking a step back and that obviously disclaimer, I'm, I'm working in ai so obviously clearly I'm gonna be pro it, but I mean, I think, um. Listen, you know, when, back in the day when the Ford Motorcar was being rolled out and everyone was riding around, riding around in horse and cart, they said everyone's gonna lose their jobs and it was gonna be bad for, for business.

You know, the, the motorcar was,

uh, people were quite skeptical of

it when it first came out. And I think, you know, AI is, is another layer of technology, Um, will it

ever be to the level of like the Terminator? No, uh, it won't, it won't do, um. but Uh, on the, on the flip side, I think it could actually have a lot of, uh, good, uh, power and powerful use within the world of research is

one, one area. For example, um, you know, I've got AstraZeneca down the road and, you know, the use of ai when

Reviewing clinical tests, huge, [00:14:00] massive data models, which would take, you know, hundreds of grads years to, to decipher. You know, AI could actually do a, a,

ton of heavy lifting there.

Um, if you think of bringing, bring it into the world of e-commerce, things like keyword research and understanding buying intent and how and why people are searching for a products online.

Um,

now that's

a certain passion of mine. Uh, Coming from my sort of performance marketing background as

well, but having an AI that can actually, um, do an awful lot of that heavy lifting and give really in really good insights into demographics, uh, um, uh, where people searching from worldwide, you know, really deep diving into that information

and giving you really clear actionable insights at a rapid pace.

I mean, that's, that's. Fantastic. You know, so just think the amount, amount of years I've spent probably sat staring at Excel spreadsheets, and you're probably the same. It's, um, you know, it's probably, probably a good thing. Uh, [00:15:00] but, um, so I think that that's it, you know, it has actually got a lot, a lot of good that you can actually bring to the world and actually reduce a lot of mundane work.

Um, um, and there'd be

new, new kinds of jobs and new kinds of kinds of work. That's opened up because of it basically. Um, So, you know, I think there in, in the world of, in the world of research, advanced engineering medicine, uh, you know, all those sort of areas that, um, The, the, they'll actually open up the jobs or make things more accessible basically.

Um,

and

those kind of

companies like, you know, the world Yeah. And and eCommerce as well. Yeah. Um, so you think that, you know, there's the, there's a whole sort of eCommerce brand. uh, A sort of ecosystem, which was sort of exploded on the back of the Amazon aggregators a few years back. Uh, God rest their souls at uh, made a lot of very wealthy people. But [00:16:00] essentially, rather than having a, having to be a massively well-funded aggregator like

Thia was, uh, you know, having individuals or small groups of people launching, uh, brands and being able to. sell a lot of product very quickly and, you know, get to market faster than the Proctor and Gambles of this world.

Um, you know, there's, there's, there's a real opportunity for, for, for people to, to, to, to, you know, make, make money on the back of, um, AI rather than just thinking around, I'm gonna lose my jobs. You know, it's, it

is, an opportunity for, for people that are. Willing to learn and willing to upskill and, um, you know, use the latest tools versus some of the, you know, the bigger organizations in, in, in

AI are adverse to using it because they're worried about, you know, data security

and, and ethics and those types of things.

So,

Matt Edmundson: Well, I, I like what you said there

Matt Anderson: yeah.

Matt Edmundson: um, in that, um, [00:17:00] like with everything, you know, we've got the, at the moment I've been writing on LinkedIn about tariffs. There's a lot of. I dunno when this episode's coming out, but as at the time of recording, there's a lot of press about the tariffs, the, you know, the Trump tariffs and how they're sort of shaking things up. And what, what happens is when things like this happen is people panic and they make decisions, reactionary decisions rather than strategic decisions. And I think when there are leaps, like in ai. Actually sitting back and making a strategic decision is really important and un so understanding the tools, understanding what it can do for you.

And I love this idea that you, you know, you said you can now using these tools in effect, you've got a research scientist working for you full time. Uh, they don't complain. They just, they go away. They, it's, it's, it's a brilliant thing. And so taking that data, if you know how to use the tools. Because you are not Proctor and Gamble, because you are not the Titanic.

You're a speedboat. You can turn, you can be super nimble and bring something to market way [00:18:00] quicker than they can. I. take advantage of the opportunities that the bigger companies can no longer do because they're, they're, well, they've always had this issue, haven't they? They've always been constrained by their size and their processes and how they do things. and I think in some respects what you're talking about then is generative AI becomes a great leveler, doesn't it? For,

Matt Anderson: Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: entrepreneurs.

Matt Anderson: a absolutely a hundred, A hundred percent. And I think if you, you layer on that concept with, um, AI agents that, uh, are working

within the consumer journey already. Ru Rufuss being one of them with

within, um, Amazon World, uh, you know, um, you know, I, I. Hey, I, I'm, I'm, I'm a guy and I'm, I need a razor, but I'm, I'm looking for a waterproof razor that's, you know, I can use, uh, on, on the go when I'm, I'm traveling

and, and,

and, I can ask the AI that and go, go off and find me.

Here's my budget. Go off and find

the, the best ones in the market. Um, and, and I want it to be sustainable and I'm not gonna buy, you know, from the [00:19:00] US 'cause the tariffs, are gonna buy Germany or whatever it may be. You know, the consumer has lots of fickle, um, ways means to buy a product and. You can, get, you can ask an AI agent like rufuss,

those questions that'll go off and turn the product.

So it's a great level where it's um, you know, the proctors and gambles and the Unilevers and the, and the rackets of this world are, are there dominating the physical shelf in the store? You know,

they're, they're, they're, they're using their, their sourcing and. Heft in, in a marketing sense to, to, to be there and keep the little guys and girls out.

Um, and it's the same in the world of eCommerce, isn't it? You know, they're out spending people on Google. They, they, they're, they're spending a ton on organic SEOs. they're outranking you. And sometimes as a, you know, the one man band, you, you, you're thinking, well, how, you know, how how am I gonna compete in this niche?

Whereas the AI will be a great lever of that. Okay. And actually, well, no, I'm gonna go off. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be agnostic to, [00:20:00] to brand. I'm not gonna follow the big logos or anything like that, but I'm gonna go off and find the best product for you consumer. So the consumers have got the research agents as well.

So

I think you've got like the entrepreneurs and the consumers are, well, hopefully, you know, and we all spoken about to our friends the, you know, the latest product that you've just found in God, you know, only if I'd found this thing earlier, guys, but it's, it's absolutely brilliant. You know, I've just

found Whatever it may be. Um, you know, the Dysons of this world before, before, uh, uh, you know, vacuum, vacuum cleaner bags were a good thing that, you know, di Dyson was, was nowhere to be seen because the, the big boys in in that market were,

were

pushed pushed them out. So, but now AI would be a great leveler with, with entrepreneurs like Dyson because they would've been able to get

way To market way faster through

prototype

testing and also be found by the consumer

[00:21:00] faster as well.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? I, I like this idea. I am intrigued actually how AI is now starting to impact how we search for products.

Matt Anderson: Hmm.

Matt Edmundson: to be if you wanted something from any website, Amazon, or whatever it was, you kind of had to know what it was you wanted.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Um, and if you didn't know what you wanted, like when we had the beauty site, we had blog posts after blog posts, after blog posts to try and help you understand if you have this skin condition, you might wanna try these products to bring that education.

And we did it through blogs, did it through YouTube videos

Matt Anderson: Yep.

Matt Edmundson: all that sort of stuff to help consumers figure it out. Now, um. I go to perplexity and I say to perplexity, um, I was after some, uh, what product was I after the other day? Um, that I bought, uh, the electrolyte drinks, right? So

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: the gym, I wanted an electrolyte.

I. Supplement that I could take. What's the best per supplement that I should take for electrolytes? This is my [00:22:00] exercise. This is what I do. Go away, find out, come back to me and tell me. And it, and it goes away. And it comes back. Now, whether it's the right one for me is another story entirely. But the fact is that we are now outsourcing and with Amazon, you know, with, with Rufuss, like say a friend of mine, he developed Ross Heatherington, um, who owns Shopify Marketing. He developed a search engine where you would put in your problem and using AI it would find products that would solve your problem. Right. he, I've seen the prototype and he is like, there's no point in taking it any further. 'cause Amazon seemed to have now resolved this problem with Rufuss and it, it seems to be that that is a really interesting avenue now to go down and to understand as e-commerce entrepreneurs that actually the way we're gonna search, I think is probably different.

Matt Anderson: Yeah,

absolutely a hundred percent. It, it's going, I mean, um, uh, before I used to work at an agency before and, and opt optimize on an, a Marketplace in, in Amazon [00:23:00] world, and we, I always used to describe it to the, the teams there, as you know, to.

To understand how we should be optimizing a product, we need to think about the buying missions.

So what, are the different ways that you're gonna buy a snack bar and like eat Naturals, a brand that we were looking at at the time and you think, well, let's see. Well, it could be a snack bar and I'm just hungry and you know, kid, I've got teenagers in the house and they

just need snack bars to fill 'em up One, one by mission.

Another one is, I'm a gym monkey and I'm I, and I want protein bars and I want something with protein so I can, I can stack up on protein after I've been in the gym. Another way is actually, it's also a vegan bar, I'm a vegan and I don't want anything. So there's,

you know, consumers

come at a product in different

angles to like their, their needs and wants is really important.

And I think that, um, you know, if you can, if you as an entrepreneur and as an e-commerce entrepreneur, this is where I was talking about like brand and e-commerce and AI really meet in a perfect match. It's like [00:24:00] I I, and I'm launching my own brand later this year, by the way. Uh, so what's. So, um, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'll take you through the thought process.

I'm, I'm, I'm looking at, okay, well, I've spotted a niche that I think I can get in in, it's not too much of a large niche, but, you know, I think I can, um, uh, if I, if I, if I hits it right, I could, you know, generate enough income to make, to get me to the next level and then expand that, which is great. That's a good tick, right?

Let's, then, Then I can deploy my a AI agents and go, okay, well let's look at this niche. What, what do people like about products? What don't they like about products? What, what pain points have they got? What Issues? Have they got, you know, um, and then figure out why, why people would want a product or need a product.

And it's that need, need point It's really like, what, what, what's it? Is this not being scratched by the competition or the big boys? And I think it's really, that's at a point where, you know, as an entrepreneur you can go, okay, well

If

that product [00:25:00] doesn't exist. Well, let's go off and create that product, and then we know how to market it in that niche

uh, and then go after it from that point of view.

Um, or I can create a different category altogether because there's needs and wants from a consumers here that are not being met by them. So I think that's really super interesting that you can actually develop stroke source

products Based on, on the needs of what's in a category that perhaps are even, even being fulfilled by the competitors.

Um. and, and that, and then, and then adapt your, your marketing to really target them as well. Um, I think that's about, it's a really interesting space, um, particularly if you can get AI has to go off it. Haven't quite nailed it quite yet, but I, I spotted an ai, um, the Wonder Family, I dunno if you've seen that.

It's called Steve.

Um,

And, um, there, there's, they've just literally just launched it. So there's an AI that you can, you can give it a niche that you want to target, and then you can sort of decide on a product and it'll go off and then, [00:26:00] uh, source that product and send out the emails to suppliers and set up a competitive contender and then get it, get it all for you as well.

So,

in theory, I haven't, you know, that's something that's being launched at the moment, but in theory, you know, you could actually. Get a very slick system in place, basically. So I think that's sort of, um, uh, and so there's some really, really cool tools out there.

Matt Edmundson: It's really interesting, isn't it? How people are using AI now to help them. It's like, what's the most boring part of your job? Finding the products, getting the tenders and all that sort of stuff. So it's just here, just go do that. I, I, I want to come back to

your

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: if that's okay, but I, I guess this is a good point to ask. What tools then are you using to launch your brand, and what tools should e-commerce entrepreneurs be? I mean, we've touched on GPT as an obvious one. Claude I think is much better for content than GPT, but that's just, you know, my, my personal

Matt Anderson: Agreed. [00:27:00]

Matt Edmundson: um.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Well, we agree this, this is a beautiful thing. So what else should we be thinking about?

What else should, what tools have you found that you think, actually, this is a really clever thing that they're doing right

Matt Anderson: Well, you, me, you, you mentioned one, um,

or, or carry, carry

on the, the, the agreement is there's perplexities, it's a great tool for product research and,

and, um, you know, if you wanted to dig into. the Demographics and, uh, just provide a quick overview of a, of a category, so that's great. Um, um, and, um, also, um, shameless plug of Dragonfly, which where I'm working at the moment.

Um, uh, and that'll allow, uh, the user to scan any content, physical or online, uh, to 89% accuracy of the human eye. Um, and decide about which, which, which product or which image. Will, uh, gain more attention and you're more likely

to click on it before you launch it, basically. Um, and that works on the physical shelf as [00:28:00] well, because obviously, you know, picking off the product off the shelf, uh, that, that standout on shelf is really important as well for packaging.

Um, so that's, that's a really good tool. Um. there's, um, tools like Pfu, uh, out there, which has been a while around for a while, but they've got some good, interesting AI capabilities in that. So you can, when launching your product, you

can have different logo types or different. Concepts and then launch 'em out to small groups of people, get some feedback.

But the AI will summarize their overall feedback as well. Um, so that's, that's really, really cool. I, there's, there's some, some good, good starting points there really, uh, to look at. Um, and there's some good tools like make.com, which help. It's a bit like,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Anderson: connecting

various things.

Matt Edmundson: isn't it really?

Matt Anderson: Yeah, basically.

I think that's, that's a good. A good tool really.

But I would, I would say, is, um, you know, we're going back to sort [00:29:00] of opening up Pandora's box and people being absolutely swamped with lots of different, um, products out there that you can use. And I haven't even touched upon visual and, and video ai, which is, some of it is just absolutely mind blowing.

I dunno if you've seen any of it, like cling and, and, and render and the like. Um, it's really just. Start with start small,

start what they say, what is that really boring? Because if, if you're not passionate about doing something, you're never gonna, A, be really good at it, or b, make a lot of money at it, in my

view. So, so let's find that really boring thing that's taking up a lot of time in your business and just focus on that one thing with, and just get a system that's nicely polished and, and you, you've got a, you know, human being checking it before it goes out sort of thing. Um. You know, and, and, and then, and then move on from there would be my advice because it, it, it

can be overwhelming just for the amount of time it takes from learning these new tools, obviously.

But also, uh, you [00:30:00] know, the costs start ramping up as well. Um, you know,

before, you know, you're spending like sort of five or six grand a month on

Matt Edmundson: It's easy, isn't it? It's easy to do.

Matt Anderson: yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think there's an opportunity cost isn't there? Because for me, I've, I've spent a lot of time understanding at the start, I spent a lot of time understanding GPT and Claude when they, you

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: out understanding how AI works. And I think I can use those, those both relatively quite well to get out of it what I want to get out of it. Um, but I'm also aware that how I use Claude now is very different to how I use c. Used it a year ago, you know, there's this sort of perpetual learning isn't there and, and staying on top of things. 'cause it's not like, it's not like stationary, it's not like Microsoft Word, where once you've figured it out, you're fine for the next 20 years, you know,

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: uh, it's, you may be fine for the next 20 minutes.

So there's this perpetual learning. So there's the actual cost of the software, but there's also the opportunity cost of having to stay [00:31:00] on top of it. So I, I do like what you said. You know, you've gotta pick your tools wisely, haven't you? Otherwise you're just gonna get swamped and overwhelmed with the whole thing.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: what's having the biggest impact on your business? I think, that. That makes a lot of sense. You know, pick sort of two or three and then just get really good at them and then add, it's a bit like social media, isn't it? I suppose you can, you could be on every social media platform, but it's probably not good for you.

Um,

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: do one or two really Well,

Matt Anderson: Yeah, and I think there's, um, there's about, so. 18 months ago, I think, you know, I, I, I've sort of hit a moment where I, I was back in the day, sort of 2007 on Twitter and, and, and I was,

uh, doing digital marketing on Facebook at sort of 20 10, 20 12 and,

and, and, and, just, you get absolutely, um, new, it's a new shiny thing, but you having to absolutely immerse yourself in it.

And I was just, [00:32:00] um, I I, I got a bit burnt out with social media to be honest, because it was just, it was just,

you know.

Too, too immersed in, in all the different platforms too, too overwhelmed with it all. Um,

and I think that's just the pace of technology now is, this, this so, so far. So I think you are right.

It's just sort of taking a step back, Focus, focus on where you can add the best value and, and, and where's the best opportunity cost in your business. And, and, um, and, and, and master that you know, you, you can't be good at every martial art. Just pick one. Be a black belt, and it basically has been my advice.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, very true. Very true. Although I st and I'm the wrong person to say that 'cause I still did quite a few different ones. Um, but. I, I

do get the point. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's usually me to be fair, mate. It's usually me. Um, love that. before we get into your, I want to talk to you about your, your brand, if I may.

But, um, before we do [00:33:00] that, let me do this thing while I remember where I ask my guest, which is you, Mr. Anderson,

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: uh, for a question. This is where I take the question. At some point in the future, I'll answer this question on social media. So, Matt, what's your question for me?

Matt Anderson: Um, request for you. Um, I think in the, in, in, in, in the world of web and, and.

you know, What, what does, what does a AI mean for sort of the world of web design? Um, uh, really I think it's, um, it's one area that I, I've been looking at, um, Shopify for example, is, um, as a, as a tool that I'm, I'm developing and I know I had a good rudimentary understanding of it.

A lot of my deep expertise within

is

within Amazon, and I think. where, where do you think that the world of AI is gonna take the world of web design? Because I think, um. I think there's a, a really, there's a really good opportunity there. There's already tools out there for designing websites,

[00:34:00] using ai. but you know, going back to your web copy and your, you know, and you have AI images, there's always got that dystopian feel about them, haven't they?

They're always

like, they've got this slightly creepy feel as

these people.

Matt Edmundson: ones are ai.

Matt Anderson: So, you But where, but you know where, where, where, because you've got SEO O key Web research, um, copywriting,

coding could all be done by ai, ai Eventually I saw a podcast, I think it was the Diary and the CEO and I can't remember the guy's name on it.

He was talking about agen I be able to launch a website, uh, and go, actually, what if you're launching this website in a beauty brand

within

this market? That's great. but have you thought about launching it in Hindu? And would you like me to translate it into that language as well, you know, and, uh, you know,

will, will it go in that area or would it, is it just, just too,

quick, too complex really?

So yeah.

What's it mean for the world of ai, I think is, um, definitely something that, [00:35:00] um, I'm trying to get my head around and I'm not really, it, it's, yeah, like I say, the Pandora's box is open

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Anderson: in theory. A lot of these things could be or should be very or very soon. possible. but where? Where's it going? Really?

Matt Edmundson: Very good question.

Matt Anderson: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: have a little ponder about that, if you wanna know how I'm gonna answer that question. Can follow me on LinkedIn, Matt Edmundson? Just find me there and I

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: answering that question. Uh, Matt, listen, tell me, uh, obviously if you are launching a brand, there's a limit to what you do want to say, but um. What are you launching? Uh, as much as you can say, uh, towards the end of the year.

Matt Anderson: So

I'm watching, um, a brand in the pet space. Um, I've been work, working. in the world of sort of digital, I worked with a number of pet brands previously, um, like within Mars, Mars Pet Care, Spillers and Trill and you Move and, and

JSON

and Paige and brands like that. So I've, I've, I am passionate about the pet industry.

It's, [00:36:00] it's growing significantly. Um, and, um, Um, I'm very interested in, um, in, in health around, uh, animals like, within Cat and Dog. Um, and around anxiety and the like, and how, how, what, what fascinates me is how humans have, um, adopted their own habits. Whether it be like turmeric for, you know, for, for, for recovery, for example.

And then actually taking that theory and going actually, well my dog could use some term Rick. 'cause it's

getting old. And you know,

the, so it's this whole sort of pattern of. uh, human trends into, into the world of, uh, in pet. So that's what I'm interested in really. Um,

and

it's, it's a, and um, just a whole sort of, um, health, health and health and beauty area.

But pet pet is, is fun. Pets. Pet's a

fun cat. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: it, fascinates me. We have this brand,

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, the Vegetology brand.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: if you [00:37:00] can, uh, there you go. It's on the screen now.

Vegetology make, um, supplements, right? I'm a, I, I am the MD I suppose, of this company and I, I get the, the beautiful, chore of making sure that the sales are growing. Et cetera, et cetera. One of the things that fascinates me about this brand, right? So the Omega-3, it is a vegan brand. In other words, every product is vegan certified. A lot of, um, vegetarians, uh, it's also vegetarian certified, but our market is obviously any, anybody, because anybody can take them. Even if, if, if you eat meat, you can still eat.

Uh, take these supplements, right?

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: One of the things that's fascinated me, about this is obviously you're drawing distinctions, um, between, with vegan brands, you are very concerned about the animal kingdom. Uh, in terms of how these products were made, what we've noticed is is, and what I could never have predicted, uh, with, with all the best hindsight in the world, is for example, we have, there are [00:38:00] veterinarians in the UK who will order. Omega-3 as a liquid format to give to dogs. Um, and so they, you know, I'm not, I, I'm not saying one way or the other, you can do this. I'm just saying this is what somebody does. Um, and they're starting to give animals human supplements. Um, and so I said to uh, um. Uh, the, the ch the, the guy that sort of, Chris, he's the founder of Vegetology.

There's a brain the size of a planet, real science guy, right? And, um, I'm like, well, why don't we do pet supplements? I mean, it seems to be like a bit of a no brainer that people want them. And he said to me, Matt, the legislation for human supplements is about an inch thick.

Matt Anderson: Yes,

Matt Edmundson: for patch supplements is about 10 inches thick.

Matt Anderson: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: It's a really, it's a really interesting phenomenon that we're in. So you are getting into that space. Good on you, man. That, that sounds like it could be, could be [00:39:00] quite good fun.

Matt Anderson: Yeah, it is good. It is good,

good fun. But it it, it is interesting about this sort of human. pet sort of crossover. I was talking to a a, a vinegar brand, Apple side, a vinegar brand. And, uh, they were noticing that we were going with some large bulk colds from customers. And basically it was, it was, a horse owners buying it

and putting it in the feed, uh, to help with gut health, but they were just like taking the human products and bang it

in the hu in the horse speed.

So I think, yeah, it's definitely, there's a, the crossover each way. And you do get, like, in the world of, I, I sat in a. In a, in a in a client meeting in the world of dog and they just released this new, new chew Supplement. And, uh, of course

they,

they, they, all hand a pack around and go, just kind, let's try one sort of thing so that

they all, they all eat, all eat the dog food and, and, uh, and so yeah, it's uh, it's a, bit, yeah, it gets, can get a little bit strange at times, I guess when you're sort of sitting there eating doggy snacks, but you know, I, [00:40:00] it's

not

Matt Edmundson: I don't mind. I, I, genuinely don't mind.

Matt Anderson: legislation you mentioned, it's probably actually, uh

uh.

Matt Edmundson: is. It reminds me of the film, uh, you know, lethal Weapon with Mel Gibson and his eating dog snacks to curb his smoking habit.

Matt Anderson: Yes,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, going back a long time now, ladies,

Matt Anderson: yes, yes.

Matt Edmundson: Lethal Weapon movies. Now, before we wrap up, uh, lemme just say if you have found this whole conversation about ai interesting, I would love to invite you to join us in our weekly newsletter. Uh, in the newsletter we go through all the stuff that Matt talks about. We're go and find some extra research, some extra stuff, gonna be expanding on this whole topic around AI and eCommerce. Um, because you know what? It's brilliant. I found that the podcast format is brilliant for these big ideas.

Love these conversations. And the newsletter is where we get to break them down a little bit. So, uh, do come sign up for that. The link for that is in the show notes. But Matt, listen, I've really enjoyed the [00:41:00] conversation, man. It's always good to think about ai. I'm especially enjoying the skateboard on the wall behind you.

Uh,

the bright yellow skateboard.

That's, uh, that's, that's, that's quite, you've got some interesting art on your walls. It's very, very,

quite eclectic.

Matt Anderson: Yeah, it's eclectic mix in here. Some, um, it's my, my, my, um, office and um, I always joke, it's sort of like the stuff my wife doesn't want on the walls in the house.

This

is

I get, I get

what I want.

Matt Edmundson: That's so true for every man cave, right? Everything in this, everything in this office. I'm in my man cave at the house at the moment, so it's in effect,

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: you know, it's my, my home office, but in, in here is all the stuff my wife doesn't want out. So, uh, like my little Lego, Indiana Jones figures, you know,

Matt Anderson: Yes. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad I'm not alone. I've, I've got lots of things, you know, all, all your little mantros you put on your desk and

things,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, man. Trophies. I love that phrase. That's what it is. I've got these man [00:42:00] trophies.

Matt Anderson: um.

So, yes, I've got a, this, little chrome grenade anyway, but, um,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. Fun, fun, fun, fun. Uh, listen, Matt, uh, tell us how people can reach you. Tell us how people can connect with you if they wanna do that. What's the best way?

Matt Anderson: Uh, yeah. So, um, I'm on LinkedIn, so Matt, Matt Anderson. Um, and, uh, if you'd like to check out more about Dragonfly dragonflyai.co is the website and so do, do check us out and, um, yeah, do feel free to, um. Drop me a line on LinkedIn and a dm. Um, if you find anything that's interesting we've been talking about, then do, um, and I'll be, um, you know, keeping an eye out for the posts about, um, AI and website design.

'cause I think that's, that's something that, you know, I haven't, I, I'm not the expert. I haven't cracked it yet. but I'd say Pandora's Box. is open, so, uh, I'll be there, be there commenting as

well.

Matt Edmundson: boxes.[00:43:00]

Matt Anderson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: open. No. Fantastic. Well, listen, Matt, I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for joining me. Uh, let me do the usual. Yes, there we go. that's been awesome.

Well, that's it from, yeah. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So that's it from me. That's it from Matt. Thank you so much for joining us.

Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I will see you next time. Bye for now.