Maximizing Google Ads: Performance Max & Customer Acquisition Strategies
Guest: Kristians Sikora
Meet Kristians, an eCommerce wizard with a golden Google Ads touch, turning 8-figure budgets into success stories across the globe! From boosting numerous under-the-radar brands to co-founding an agency that's rocked over $20M in ad spend, he's mastering the Google-verse. Kristians is not just a strategist; he's the go-to guy for making eCommerce magic happen!
Key Takeaways:
Performance Max Campaigns: Discover the potential and pitfalls of Google's Performance Max campaigns. Kristians breaks down how balancing these with other advertising strategies can lead to more robust results, offering a unique perspective on navigating this complex tool.
Conversion Tracking Challenges: Learn about the common mistakes in conversion tracking and why accuracy is crucial for your eCommerce success. Kristians shares his expertise on how to avoid misleading data, emphasizing the importance of staying informed about the latest trends and strategies.
Starting with Google Ads: For new eCommerce businesses, Kristians suggests beginning with Meta (Facebook) ads to build brand awareness, then progressing to Google Ads. This strategic approach can help businesses establish a strong online presence and effectively reach their target audience.
Links for Kristians
Related Episode
Sponsor for this episode
At the eCommerce Cohort, we're committed to helping you deliver eCommerce WOW through our lightweight, guided monthly Sprint that cycles through all the key areas of eCommerce.
What happens in a Sprint?
Each Sprint is themed-based. So using the topic of Everything You Need To Know About Subscription eCommerce as an example - here's how it would work:
Sprint Theme: Marketing.
Week One: Coaching Session -> Marketing.
Week Two: Expert Workshop -> Everything You Need To Know About Subscription eCommerce.
Week Three: Live Q&A with our experts and coaches. This is a time to ask questions and contribute your thoughts and ideas so we can all learn together.
Week Four: Submit your work for feedback, support, and accountability. Yup, all of this is to provide you with clear, actionable items you can implement in your eCommerce business or department! It's not about learning for the sake of learning but about making those constant interactions that keep you moving forward and ahead of your competitors. Sharing your work helps cement your understanding, and accountability enables you to implement like nothing else!
Who can join the eCommerce Cohort?
Anyone with a passion for eCommerce. If you're an established eCommercer already, you'll get tremendous value as it will stop you from getting siloed (something that your podcast host, Matt Edmundson, can attest to!).
If you're just starting out in eCommerce, we have a series of Sprints (we call that a Cycle) that will help you get started quicker and easier.
Why Cohort
Founder and coach Matt Edmundson started the Cohort after years of being in the trenches with his eCommerce businesses and coaching other online empires worldwide. One of Matt's most potent lessons in eCommerce was the danger of getting siloed and only working on those areas of the business that excited him - it almost brought down his entire eCommerce empire. Working on all aspects of eCommerce is crucial if you want to thrive online, stay ahead of your competitors and deliver eCommerce WOW.
Are you thinking about starting an eCommerce business or looking to grow your existing online empire? Are you interested in learning more about the eCommerce Cohort?
Visit our website www.ecommercecohort.com now or email Matt directly with any questions at matt@ecommercepodcast.net.
Matt has been involved in eCommerce since 2002. His websites have generated over $50m in worldwide sales, and his coaching clients have a combined turnover of over $100m.
-
Matt: [00:00:00] Well hello and welcome to The eCommerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Sorry about that. My voice went a little bit hoarse at the start, but welcome to the show. Hopefully it's going to carry on working. That's bizarre. This is working all right a minute ago. Anyway, this podcast is all about helping you deliver eCommerce well.
And to help us do just that, we're chatting with today's guest, Kristians Sikora from Aime Media about maximizing Google Ads. Performance Max and Customer Acquisition Strategies. I mean, that's a heck of a topic, isn't it? And so we're gonna get into all of that, just turning my phone off. Now, before we jump into it, let me tell you, be like me, put your phone in Do Not Disturb before you hit the record button.
We are gonna let you know about the newsletter. Now, the newsletter [00:01:00] is an awesome piece of kit. If you've not already subscribed, why not? If you're a regular to the show, uh, you should be subscribed. If you're new to the show, check it out, just go to ecommercepodcast. net, sign up to the newsletter because each week, all of the tips, the strategies, the notes, the transcripts, they all come straight to your inbox.
Don't even have to lift a finger, it's awesome. Now, this show is brought to you by the eCommerce Cohort. The eCommerce Cohort, if you don't know, is our monthly membership group where you get access to some amazing, uh, workshops around the topic of eCommerce from amazing people all over the world, many of whom.
Have been amazing guests on this show, so do go check them out, uh, this week we've got Claire Daniels, uh, this week, this month, next month, November, coming up, we've got Claire Daniels, uh, doing her workshop, which I'm super excited about, all about marketing, so you're not going to want to miss that, she was a great guest, so do come check that out.
Prices start from just [00:02:00] 14. 99 a month. It's pretty low really. Uh, so yeah, come and check it out. eCommerce Cohort dot, that's eCommerce Cohort dot com. Right. That's the show sponsor. Let's talk about Christians, an eCommerce wizard with a golden Google ads touch. Love that. Turning eight figure budgets into success stories across the glove from boosting numerous under the radar brands
to cofounding an agency that's rocked over 20 million 20 million in ad spend, ah be nice to have 20 million to spend on ads in a lot of ways, wouldn't it uh he's mastering, google now Kristians',
not just a strategist he's the go to guy for making. ecommerce magic happen. Kristians great to have you on the show. Loving your bio, man. The go to guy for making eCommerce magic happened. No pressure there, then.
Kristians: Um, yeah, that's probably the, the touch of one of my, uh, partners at the agency. So he loves, he loves talking me up, but, uh, [00:03:00] yeah, um, that, that puts some, uh, some pressure, honestly.
Matt: It does a little bit.
Kristians: It's always, it's always exciting to be the go to guy or, or to make, make the strategy to, to build up that strategy and, and actually see it work.
It's uh, really frustrating or, or nervous at the beginning, but, but uh, yeah, uh, apparently it has paid off.
Matt: very good. Well, you know, it's, it sounds like it's paid off, which is, which is awesome. I actually think your bio was rewritten by Sadaf. Uh, is what tends to happen. So you send your bio in and Sadaf normally goes, yeah, I'm just going to jazz that up a little bit. Uh, cause she just does that with every single guest on all our podcasts.
Um, and nine times out of 10, the guest sits there listening to me reading the bio going, I didn't write that, but it sounds really good. I'll take it. [00:04:00] And so the amount of requests we get for people from guests to say, could you just send us that bio? So then it appears on their LinkedIn or whatever
is quite
Kristians: actually, that would be nice. Yeah.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So whereabouts in the world are you, sir?
Kristians: So, um, yeah, I'm in Latvia.
Matt: Okay. Yeah,
Kristians: been, yeah, basing mostly, mostly here. Um, and then, uh, yeah, we're, we're kind of doing our stuff all over the world. So, uh, one of our partners is also in Latvia, other one is, uh, He's a nomad, you know, traveling around, spent some time in Amsterdam, uh, now he's in Lisbon.
So it's always interesting, uh, how our, uh, kind of work together goes as well. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm here in, uh, Latvia,
Matt: It's interesting, isn't it? Now, because the way the internet is and the way the world is, it doesn't really matter where you're from, uh, is the, is a genuine response. It's like, actually, um, we have partners in, uh, Hungary. We have [00:05:00] partners in, um, trying to think,
do we have any in that? No, we have, um, Well, we got partners in most of those old Baltic nations, you know, and I, and I, and it, and it's wonderful because I really, one, it's just always nice to connect with people from different cultures who always interpret the world in a very different way to what I do, which is always quite helpful, I feel, um, because my worldview can be quite limited.
Um, yeah. But also, it's just really interesting how the world is a much smaller place, and you know, you're based in Latvia, I'm in Liverpool right now, we're recording this over the web like we're next door to each other, uh, and it's the most remarkable thing, and um, I, I just love that. I love the fact that you've got a partner that's a digital nomad, because, you know, if you're that phase of life, why would you not do that?
Go and enjoy yourself a little bit, you know? Um, and it's, it's, it's one of the, the more wonderful sides of technology, uh, I find.[00:06:00]
So how did,
Kristians: Like everything is just that, that much closer and so much, yeah, that much reachable.
yeah,
Matt: as long as you got a fast internet connection, the world is now at your feet, isn't it, really, in a lot of ways. Um, so you're, you're in Latvia, you've got this agency, how long have you been doing Google Ads?
Kristians: Uh, yeah, so I started with Google ads basically four, four years ago, a bit less, uh, it was pretty sudden to be honest. I was just asked that this company I was working for, um, yeah, I was a general marketing or junior marketing specialist basically. Um, and they asked me like, do I do, do I, do I know Google ads?
I was like, yeah, sure I do. I started jumping on calls, uh, learning everything I could about it. Um, and six months later, it already felt like I'm kind of, you know, in my, in my comfort zone with, uh, and I actually found the thing that I didn't know I was looking for. [00:07:00] Um, and then gradually starting with, with.
That company then further moving to an e comm agency and then deciding with, uh, actually my friends to start our own, our own agency. So yeah, really these past three, four years have been, uh, have moved really, really quickly.
Matt: as they do, because years in digital industries tend to be, we, I don't know if you have the same thing in Latvia, in the UK we have things called dog years. And a year, and we call it a dog, it's like, apparently one dog year is like seven normal years or something like that, you know, and it's kind of like, um, and so I think that applies to the digital sphere, doesn't it really?
It's like one year in the digital world is, is the equivalent of seven years outside it sort of thing. And so if you've been involved with it for four years, that's actually quite a long time, which is why I often refer to myself as a dinosaur. Because I've been involved with website design since the late nineties and I've been an eCommerce since the early [00:08:00] noughties, 2002 was my first eCom, so, so, hence the reason I'm a bit, bit of a dinosaur, Kristians, but, um, but that's okay,
Kristians: I mean, they'll actually, I never thought about it that way, but that actually sounds, sounds really true. Cause for me, the, the four years feel really, really long. Like I, I basically know, know half of the stuff or, or, or not most of the stuff about Google ads, but then there are guys like who are doing this for 10, 15, 20 years, basically. And I just can't imagine the knowledge that they have and the, yeah, how they feel about this.
Matt: Yeah, but it's interesting, isn't it? Because, uh, you see, I knew a lot about Google Ads, say, ten years ago when we did it in house in our eCom businesses. But the reality of it is Google ads 10 years ago are very, very different to Google ads right now. And actually some of my old thinking is unhelpful because I'm tethered to a way a system used to be rather than the way the system actually is.
And [00:09:00] Google, uh, Google is one of those companies that is constantly reinventing everything, isn't it? And constantly changing the rules. So how do you stay on top of it all? How do you keep, keep up to date? You know, what, what are some of the tips and tricks you've got for, for making sure you know what's going on?
Yeah.
Kristians: you can be a part of, uh, that actually cause, uh, cause something that they are great value. But the best value I think you can get is actually from podcasts and LinkedIn. There are hundreds, hundreds of. Really awesome Google media buyers that are posting amazing value on LinkedIn.
Uh, both here in like Europe, uh, in, in, um, in UK as well. A lot, I know like three guys that I'm following myself, uh, us as well. Um, yeah, we try to do that as well. Kind of give free value, uh, tips, recommendations, anything that can actually. Kind of the thinking now [00:10:00] around Google is that Google is trying to maybe push and take your money.
So the, the, the easiest value can, becomes, uh, the things that you can do to actually save your money and, and leverage it in the most efficient way. So um, Yeah, just, just following people on LinkedIn, reading their basically daily, daily, uh, content is an amazing way to learn and up your game. Uh, even if you're just at the very beginning, because the, the tips range from, yeah, the most basic stuff to some really high level stuff, but
Matt: yeah,
Kristians: that's, that's the best way, uh, yeah, place to get, get the value.
Yeah,
Matt: get that. Totally true. Um, LinkedIn is a gold mine of information in a lot of ways. Um, to be fair, part of me was expecting you to say Twitter, or X as it's now called, isn't it? It's not called Twitter anymore. I must stop that. Um, but yeah, do you do the Twitter thing or not really?
Just LinkedIn?
Kristians: I actually wanted to, yeah, kind [00:11:00] of follow, follow that up with, uh, yeah, the, the The Twitter topic is we did actually, or I did actually find value there previously, but then it just got too crowded for me. So I actually find that, uh, LinkedIn with the longer form posts, um, kind of makes it, I don't know, more, more easily digestible for my brand at least.
Um, and, uh, yeah, maybe Twitter is a bit too crowded or X is a bit too crowded.
Matt: Yeah, there's a lot of noise, isn't there? Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it? It's like, how do you find the people that you definitely want to hit and sort of filter out the noise? There's a lot of noise, I think, on social media, uh, which is, is, is, you know, again, makes me sound a little bit old, doesn't it, I suppose.
Um, so here you are in Google, what are some of the things that we then should be thinking about right now as eCommerce entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, uh, you know, um, I [00:12:00] totally lost the ability to speak for a minute, but, uh, you know, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, people running eCommerce websites, what are some of the things that we should be thinking about, um, where Google ads is concerned right now?
Kristians: probably say if you're an eCommerce brand running, uh, Google ads, the first place you have to kind of think about and look is, or actually I would say two most important pitfalls that I've seen over the accounts, um, is the conversion tracking, uh, itself and, and then. A lot of people tend to rely on PMAX too much, um, so I would say that's kind of maybe a worrying part, actually, because it can get out, out of hand, especially with, uh, faulty conversion tracking.
So, yeah, I think I'll probably try to [00:13:00] address the points one by one.
Matt: Yeah, let's dig into those because, uh, well, let's start with conversion tracking first and foremost. Well, let's not assume that everybody knows what that means. Um, what do you mean by conversion tracking and then let's dig into why we're not getting this right.
Kristians: yeah, so, um, essentially the easiest example that I've found people understand is. It's the Facebook pixel, but for Google. So, um, it's the tracking code or the tracking parameters that you install in your website that help. You understand and Google understand how many of those clicks resulted in sales
Matt: Yeah.
Kristians: what were the You know amount of amount of the purchases and also really important if you want to do remarketing so dynamic marketing Filter out your existing customers from new customers Separate that so you don't overbid on existing customers [00:14:00] and what we see and I think a big issue is that One, people try to do it themselves or two, people try to do it with Google support, but even there, kind of recommendations and steps differ from each other and usually they don't check whether everything's installed correctly.
So what usually tends to happen is that you have multiple purchase conversions. Uh, conversion actions running as primary at the same time, meaning that one sale will be counted as two, three, four sales, giving false data to the algorithm. Uh, then also having, you know, add to cart, page view, even phone calls as primary conversion, uh, kind of goals.
So that means whenever someone That's basically kind of what I think is giving Google the signal that a phone call or a page view is just as important as a purchase to your
Matt: hmm. Mm hmm.
Kristians: brand, which is what you [00:15:00] don't want to do. So it also gets tricky because then if you don't know your conversion tracking, you might go to your kind of campaigns to see the performance and see, oh, I'm doing like 20x ROAS while it's actually being counted.
The conversion value of a page view or add to cart, not the purchase itself. So that's how you can really, really lose your way. Like right at the beginning, as you start running Google ads is just seeing one number on Google, thinking it's true while you're not seeing the same thing. On your, on your, yeah.
In your bank account basically. Mm-Hmm.
Matt: Which to be honest with you, I mean, it comes up time and time again and I think it comes up time and time again because the problem in a lot of ways is still not solved. Um, there is always a discrepancy between what Google tells you, um, and what you think is true based on the numbers that you see on your website. And so, trying to get more and more accurate data becomes this sort [00:16:00] of The, the, the sort of the, the holy grail, doesn't it? That we sort of almost chase after is like, how do we get perfect attribution? Um, how do we get perfect numbers out of Google? I, I still don't know if there's an answer, but some of the things that you said strike me as quite interesting that actually we can inadvertently set up the, the tracking, um, the conversion tracking on the Google site in, in a way that's maybe not helpful.
Um, so how? Is this something you see a lot of people doing?
Kristians: Yeah. Uh, yeah, a lot actually. I think. Um, and just disclaimer, I don't know how to do conversion tracking myself. That's my, my colleague, my partner, partner at our agency. He's the one who's master conversion tracking. Um, and it's really, uh, kinda. a specific thing to, to master. So one is like Google ad strategy and one is conversion tracking on itself.
um, that's why I can understand why [00:17:00] people get it wrong. Um, but yeah, sorry, I forgot the initial question.
Matt: Yeah, no problem. I'm curious if people, if you see a lot of people making this mistake, and I think a
lot of people, a lot of people listening will be going, it's interesting what you've just said. What are some of the things? I mean, I appreciate your, your, your partner does it, um, hopefully you've picked up one or two things, but what are some of the things that we should be aware of?
How can we check it ourselves? Um, how, how do, how do we know if we've got conversion tracking wrong?
Kristians: Okay, yeah. Uh, so actually out of all of the audits I've done this year, um, I think only two accounts had the conversion tracking correctly. Uh, the best way to ensure that you have set it up correctly is to, uh, using Google Tag Manager. Uh, that's the, probably the most accurate data you can, you'll be able to get.
But, uh, the first, yes, thing you can do to check it is just go under settings, under [00:18:00] conversions. And if you have More than one action basically set as primary, then something's probably not being counted right, or it's being counted multiple times. So, under the first tab or first table that is, you're seeing purchase actions, you should only have One action set as primary.
And that should probably be, uh, connected with server side tracking or like direct website tracking. Um, and then if you move, uh, further in the settings tab, then you'll, you'll should see only All of the remaining actions are secondary. So add to cart, secondary action, not being counted into, uh, the overall accounts, performance, page views, leads, directions.
If you have those as well, everything should be set as secondary. I would probably, if you're an eCommerce brand, delete the kind of phone calls and, and lead any, any. Lead related conversion actions [00:19:00] from the account. So leave, uh, add to cart, leave page view as secondary actions. Um, but yeah, then just have the best, yeah, the best ways to check if you have only one primary conversion action, which is purchase.
Um, yeah, I would say there are steps or there are strategies where you can, can maybe trick your ad account if it's completely fairly new, where you are using An add to cart action as a primary one, but, uh, yeah, for the majority of cases, I would say just leave it for purchase primary conversion and, and that should be kind of the first maybe step to success with conversion tracking.
And I actually liked what you said before, that it is this kinda topic that no one knows if we. So like I said, I don't know how many of you ever will get it right. Even now the cookie of Google is not able to track all of the conversions. So there's still discrepancy of what Google is showing [00:20:00]
Matt: hmm, mm
Kristians: what the actual kind of impact of Google Ads is to your business.
Usually, I've seen, if you're using apps like TripleWhale or Nordbean, which are third party attribution tools is where you can see more accurate data and Using those apps, you can actually see that there's usually a 20 40 percent discrepancy from what you're seeing on Google and what you're actually getting.
So, you're actually getting much better performance than what Google is showing you with kind of the conversion tracking there. Um, and, and it is Yeah, I can't even say how important it is to get it right, because Google is essentially a smart bidding, it's the smartest algorithm for any paid channel, and if you feed it bad data, your outcome is going to be bad as well, so it relies on that data, it relies on the quality of that [00:21:00] data, so that's kind of the I really the foundation of everything because once you start reading it that one sale is actually worth four sales Then it will start thinking that you know I can bid more to get that one sale and then then you find yourself in the situation where you're where you're Yeah, metrics are just in the ground.
Matt: yeah, no, very, very good, uh, key information there, and so go away and check your It's interesting actually, one of the things that, um, I do, uh, Kristians, when I go And see clients. So I do a, you know, I do a bit of e-comm coaching, um, with, with people and I, it's something I quite enjoy. One of the questions that I like to ask clients whenever I sit down with 'em for the first time is I ask them, what's the primary purpose of your website?
Uh, and, and, and everyone looks at you like you, you're talking crazy [00:22:00] talk because it's like, what, what, what do you mean that it's an eCommerce site? And I'm like, yes, but is the primary purpose of your website to sell product? Yes or no?
Kristians: Mmm.
Matt: Um, because the amount of eCommerce websites who will say that, but actually the rest of their site is not geared towards that is quite extraordinary, right?
And so, but we agree 99 percent of the time for most eCommerce websites, the primary purpose of that website is to sell stuff, okay? So we write that on the, on the board, you know, primary purpose to sell stuff. And this ties in with what you're telling Google really, your primary conversion tracking is obviously is a purchase.
Interestingly that Google want you to put in secondary, because one of the questions that I follow up with is what's the secondary purpose of your website? Um, and it's one of the questions I've been asking for years and it throws people because it's like, well, I just want to sell stuff. And I'm like, yeah, but what happens to the people that come to your website that don't want to buy your stuff?
They're not ready for whatever reason to [00:23:00] buy the stuff. If you exist just to sell them stuff, if that's your primary purpose, how are you engaging with them? And I think that all comes down to your secondary purpose. And for me, Again, not true necessarily all of the time, but for most eCommerce websites, most of the time, the secondary purpose of that website is to get the email addresses of highly relevant traffic, right?
So using lead magnets, freebies, whatever mechanism, you know, makes sense for your site and for your brand. The key aim has got to be to get the email address of the person that's come to your website and then put them into some kind of email sequence or funnel that eventually will hopefully lead to a purchase.
You build a relationship with them over time. Um, so if you can't get the sale, can you get the email address? Yes or no. Um, and it's a, it's a remarkable, it's very simplistic way of thinking about your website, right? But if they're your two primary, if your primary is purchase, your secondary is to get [00:24:00] the email address.
Um, it changes, I think, quite a bit how you do your website and it changes quite a bit how you, how you do Google, I think, Google Shopping. And what's fascinating to me in this conversation is that actually if you set, if I've heard you right, setting the secondary purpose on Google as lead generation or getting someone's email address is not something that you would necessarily advise.
Mm.
Kristians: Yeah, because, um, yeah, really email for Google doesn't tie in with, with, uh, purchases. Uh, if you want to do like lead gen phone calls, uh And then try to get that email address, those would be, yeah, for lead gen kind of accounts and lead gen businesses or, yeah, B2B basically.
Matt: Mm
Kristians: That's kind of, yeah, for Google lead gen or phone calls, that's tied with the campaigns that are.
Already created towards Legion as well. So, [00:25:00] um, and I'm second saying, yeah, secondary action. 'cause basically you don't have, uh, more options to choose from. So it's either primary and it's getting used as the, uh, you know, nor Northern Star for your account. And, and you know, it's counting the conversion value or secondary, which is basically you can, yeah, you can observe the, uh.
Kind of values that are going through those actions like add to carts and and see maybe how I took how many add to carts like Google God versus the percentage of purchases it got so but that's yeah the the yeah as a secondary
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. No, fair enough. Fair enough. Fascinating. So the, the second, so the first thing you said was conversion tracking,
Kristians: Yeah,
Matt: and then the second thing you said was relying on max too much.
Kristians: yeah on on on performance max cuz yeah, it's basically I think the the Google Media buyers around the world [00:26:00] are either You know, move away from PMAX completely or have PMAX in your account still. Um, I've seen accounts where PMAX has done, you know, great things. Uh, but there are far more many accounts where I've seen it drain your, it drain your money.
Um, especially when it goes to that, you know, plus 10, 20, 30k a month.
Matt: Mm.
Kristians: PMAX can do a fairly good job on shopping and search campaigns, even if there's a little bit of a brand in it. But once you try to scale it past a certain point where it If you cannot meet the demand with, with, you know, shopping and search, then it just starts cannibalizing your own, uh, other paid media, uh, channels.
So either you're also organic traffic or the traffic that would have gotten to your site and made the purchase from meta ads [00:27:00] or, or TikTok. And yeah, PMAX just kind of swoops in, takes, uh, says, thank you for the sale. I'm gonna, I'm gonna accredit to myself for, um, yeah, showing, I don't know, a display ad maybe, or, or a video ad that doesn't have a click on it,
but because of engaged view, uh, yeah, it will say thank you for the sale.
This, this one is all, all Google. Um, and that's why you probably see oftentimes, like, crazy On, on your p max campaigns. One thing is that you, you have a lot of branded terms there, which should have gone to your brand search or maybe even your organic, uh, listings or rankings, and then it's just, or, or attributing, uh, or cannibalizing on, on your other traffic channels.
So, um, there's really, because PMAX is such a black box, it's, it's difficult to tell. Where you are getting these sales, but [00:28:00] that's why it's important to look at your overall kind of business numbers and look at your marketing efficiency ratio. Maybe try to pinpoint that moment in time when when you started scaling PMAX.
And look whether your revenue actually grew with that PMAX because Google will show that, you know, you, you started running PMAX from, I don't know, 200 a day to 1, 000 a day. It will show you're still keeping up with 4x, 5x ROAS, but then you look at your backend numbers and see that nothing actually changed. that's when, when, when you have those first signals that you have to look deeper into it, um, because Google might be just stealing. Your, your Facebook or meta traffic or, or your organic traffic and kind of wanting you to spend more on Google, showing you great numbers, but, but you are actually just, yeah.
[00:29:00] Losing money on those sales. 'cause you would've gotten them for, for free most of the time. So, or, uh.
Matt: Yeah.
Kristians: For, for better cost.
Matt: So how do we mitigate that?
Kristians: Um, yeah, so first thing, probably if you're running a high scale or even some sort of PMAX campaign, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily true for you. You have to, you have to do your own research, basically look at your, all of your channels, look at your, uh, yeah. M. E. R. or Media Efficiency Ratio, see whether that really might be the case, look at like insights within PMAX, how much is branded in there, how many conversions are you getting from your shopping campaigns, so those you can find under listing groups and products.
Uh, yeah. And, um, and see whether that might be true for you. If you have a, yeah, if you have a feeling that it might be the case, start lowering your PMAX spends and see whether that [00:30:00] affects affects your top line. Um, if it does, then yeah, then maybe PMAX is actually doing something good for you and you can explore it kind of.
Cuz we're pushing more into it. But what most of the times we see is that with decreasing or even shutting PMAX off completely, the top line doesn't really change that much, so, and that can be actually gonna managed much more efficiently with using the, you know, good ol reliable standard shopping campaigns.
If you are an eCom brand, that's probably the best way for you to grow actually. Past that, that certain point that actually PMAX could, so PMAX basically becomes a problem at scale.
Matt: Fascinating. Fascinating. So actually the old standard, I like what you called it, the standard shopping campaign, uh, is actually still, should still be part of your, uh, arsenal, um, your, your strategy, [00:31:00] even in the, in the light of things like performance max and, and all the sort of the new fangled things that are coming forward.
Kristians: because it just gives you much more control. You actually have control over those, those search terms. I know Google is pushing out a lot of new features for, for PMAX as well, but it's still Not that manageable. It still feels like a black box. Um, so, and you can still start or leverage your kind of the smart bidding algorithm for standard shopping as well, because that's kind of one of the best strategies.
Moving forward is not using manual CPC with standard shopping, but actually use a TROAS strategy with standard shopping and
Matt: Christians, just that there's a lot of terminology there, and I'm aware that people listening to No, no, no, I'm aware that we have different people listening to the show and some people just starting out. Some people like me maybe have been around a little while. So just explain some of the different terminology that you've used and then let's dig into [00:32:00] it.
Kristians: So one of probably the yeah The the most used strategies with standard shopping previously was using manual CPC or manual cost per click where you Tell Google how much you are willing to pay for For that click and it will find you sales, uh, or not sales clicks, set you in into bidding actions where you will, you know, not pay more than that click, uh, that, that bid.
Um, so it's, it's more of a manual setup and, uh, it doesn't really maybe take into account how, um, Purchase intent that click is, if that makes sense, like how warm that user might be to actually wanting to purchase or whether that's someone who's just, you know, Googling, uh, random products, trying to learn more about them or, or find images or whatever.
Uh, so now the idea is actually to [00:33:00] leverage that smart bidding. Algorithm that Google has that, you know why it's so important actually to, uh, give all of your best data to it? 'cause it can make this decisions on showing the ads, shopping ads, uh, to people who are more likely to convert. Basically, those who have.
Showing a history in Google's opinion that, yeah, they might buy something. So you leverage that and move to a target ROAS strategy where you basically already, it's essential for you to know your cost as well. It will not work in a way where you set up 4X or 400 percent target ROAS and, you know, a thousand euro a day.
Add spend and you'll suddenly make, start making, uh, yeah, 40, 000 a day. Uh, yeah, Google will probably tell you that it's, uh, that they, it is not able to spend your, your money [00:34:00] at that, at that space. But where it does become helpful is knowing your numbers and knowing that Google will probably under attribute the conversion value, the sales.
Uh, that it can get its hands on. Um, and so you, let's say you, you know, that a 2X ROAS works for you. You know, there's like a 20, 25 percent discrepancy from what Google is showing you to what you're actually seeing, uh, in the back end, in your top line. And then adjusting that. So let's say running your standard shopping at 150%, so 1.
5X ROAS, but you know, that, you know, 2X ROAS would suffice for you and you know, In real life, that 1. 5 on Google is actually closer to two or about two extra hours in, in, yeah, in real life. Um, and that's where you can start kind of playing with, uh, with, with those smart bidding algorithms and [00:35:00] strategies.
So, uh, I know cases where people are actually spending. You know, five, four or five figures a day on, on shopping with a target draw as goal of 0. 5 or 50 percent basically. And still that is, that is profitable for them. And that's actually scaling the brand, the account, not just Google wise, but the brand itself as well, because it just gives that.
You know, visibility around the shopping network, it puts you first place. It lets you, uh, compete in the bidding actions with your competitors. Plus it's, it's kinda saying Google that I still need to make, you know, I still need to find those, I still need for you to find those people that are more likely to convert as opposed to throwing the ad to everyone.
So probably Google is gonna adjust its bids then to bid a bit more on people that. Have shown, you know, uh, uh, purchase history previously and bid less to someone that might not, might, [00:36:00] might not result, um, in a conversion. So that's kind of one of the, I would say, most popular kind of advanced strategies going around there, um, is, is actually, uh, giving Google the opportunity to use smart bidding and, and knowing your numbers, still limiting it in a way Um, yeah, but kind of trying to make the most of it and, and, and actually having control over it, adding your negative keywords, um, uh, all the time.
And, um, yeah, working your way kind of from there.
Matt: The smart bidding strategy that you just talked about, which makes a lot of sense in my head. I mean, and it's nice that technology is getting to a place where you can look at the numbers and go, right, actually guys, what I'm after is I'm after a row. If we can hit this. target ROAS number the return on ad spend in other words for [00:37:00] every dollar that I spend on advertising every pound I spend on advertising with you I need to generate two pounds or two dollars in revenue that would be a two times ROAS very oversimplified but in essence that's what we're saying and so we're saying right Um, the product that I'm selling, in effect, if I hit a two times ROAS, I know I'm breaking even on the first sale.
If you're sending me people with good buyers intent, I'm okay because they'll buy from you a second time, a third time or whatever the strategy is that you, you know, you've set. Um, and so now we're getting to a stage where we can tell Google, actually, this is a kind cause before, like you say, you'd manually have to do it.
Are we, are we near my ROAS numbers? Yes or no. Turn that one off, switch that one, you know, ramp that one up kind of a thing. Um, and so we, we would spend hours doing that really, wouldn't you? In Google AdWords. Now it's all this sort of smart. And I like how you can tell Google and Google all that, well, let's increase the bids then to get those types of people to your website.
You said something [00:38:00] which was a bit of a throwaway comment that I want to sort of come back to. Um, about therefore sharing the data with Google. What did you mean by that?
Kristians: So, uh, yeah, again, it comes down to conversion tracking and, and. Give me Google the best data. So one is obviously the data that's coming from Google, but also uploading your customer list. So if, for example, you have, you know, uh, an epic history in, in Facebook ads in, uh, or customers that I've come, sorry, from meta ads, from other channels, and you're just starting off with Google or Google has been the smaller player in your whole kind of media mix.
Uploading your customer lists might help the algorithm as well. So one, it can be used for. Exclusions. So, you know, Google knows that these X amount of customers have already bought from you. Google just doesn't know about it. So you can start mix, uh, yeah, matching them and excluding [00:39:00] them. Your type of funnel campaigns.
Um, and then I do feel like that also, if you give Google enough data, that also. Helps the algorithm to kinda look for, for what it should target, kinda giving, giving the history and um, but yeah, it mostly is tied to the data that you're feeding Google. So again, don't give it the idea that one purchase is worth three purchases.
If you have three conversion primary conversion actions running at the same, so yeah, that's just make sure you're your conversion tracking because everything else goes from there. So,
Matt: So if you, uh, um, I mean, there's a, there's a lot there, Kristians. Thank you for, for your, uh, insight on it. I'm really curious by it. There's a lot there to think about. I mean, in some respects, what you've talked about is, I like [00:40:00] it because it's quite straightforward and simple. It's not, you know, convoluted, which is quite helpful.
Um, but it makes the assumption that you've got existing data. What happens if you are just starting out, uh, you start in an eCommerce business? How does your strategy for Google ads then change? I'm new to Google ads. I've got a new business. I've not really got any sales data of any history of any kind.
I'm selling a widget. I know Google ads is going to be part of that campaign. What's the best place to sort of start with something like that?
Kristians: um, I actually found from my experience that Google should be an add on channel sometime further down the line, not the channel that you actually start with. Um. Yeah, there obviously are some exclusions to that, but generally for eCommerce, I found that being the case that usually Meta and, [00:41:00] and, and, uh, yeah, Meta is the primary one.
And even when we have gotten our accounts up to a scale, usually the split is still like 30, where Meta is the biggest spender. Um, and just, if you're starting out, I would probably. Say, give your marketing spend to Meta first and then, uh, start kind of integrating Google in the picture as well. Um, and if you do start with a completely fresh account. Then I would say, uh, yeah, run the standard shopping campaign. First go with manual CPC because you don't have the data to start running a target role as, or leveraging any smart bidding strategies. Uh, Do create a brand search campaign as well, uh, I'm not a fan of them or I'm not a fan of them at scale because, uh, I think that's a big, uh, big pain [00:42:00] point for, for Google as well and other agencies or other freelancers running Google ads is telling you that your brand search is basically your Google ads and your return on brand search is your Google ads, but for a fresh account to start running a brand search campaign, it's, it can be Get you those first conversions in those first kind of data points in so, uh, it's a slow process, but It will will help yet So just give Google some sort of an idea of how your customer looks like even if they came in through a branded search Campaign, but the first campaign is probably standard shopping manual CPC and Yeah That's probably the first part of running a campaign.
Even before running a campaign, there's probably tons to do with your product feed optimization within your Google Merchant Center account, so that's another beast completely. But that's [00:43:00] probably just as important as conversion tracking before you start running anything.
Matt: Hmm.
Kristians: Um, yeah.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, uh, the shopping feed optimization is something that we seem, we seem to be constantly tweaking. Uh, with our, with our stuff on Google. I'm intrigued though, why you would say if you're new, if you're, if you're established, um, I liked what you said, then your meta Google split should be around 60, 40, maybe 70, 30.
Um, I'm curious as to why, if you're starting out, you would focus the majority, if not all of that budget onto something like meta. Why not Google straight away?
Kristians: Um, yeah, even though Google Is search intent based and even with shopping campaigns, you, you get to put your product out there with, uh, with all of the competitors. So you can, you know, they can compare the prices, they can compare, [00:44:00] uh, reviews, images, like how the product looks itself before they make a decision to click.
But there's probably been already some sort of, um, kind of awareness generated, like for that product itself.
Matt: Yeah.
Kristians: And when someone goes looking for a product, they see, you know, your brand and brand A and brand B, it might be the case that they click on a competitor just because they've seen them on Facebook and they have some sort of already brand recognition with them because Yeah, you're still, you're still fresh, you're still new, you're showing up there, but they just don't know you, and they might have seen, you know, one or two Facebook ads from a competitor, so that's where the click goes as well.
Matt: Yeah.
Kristians: That's probably where Google and Facebook really ties together, is that Facebook is amazing for Brand [00:45:00] awareness, visibility, and just building that kind of trust already with the product itself. So, um, yeah, in most cases, uh, Google success is really tied into, uh, Facebook success.
Matt: Yeah. That's interesting. Well, I, it's quite an interesting viewpoint. I wonder, I've heard before actually, um, and certainly the balance of ad spend. I've, we've talked a lot about that in the past, but I think, um, it's interesting. If you are starting out, Meta over Google is, is a probably a good place to start.
What do you think dear listener? Agree or disagree? I'm curious to know. Right, Christians, listen, I've totally enjoyed the conversation, man. Lots of notes, as always, and but I'm also aware of time. So I probably should bring this to a close. If people want to reach out to you, if they want to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
Kristians: Um, yeah, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Uh, I'm posting there a lot. Even if you just want to follow for the content, I'm trying to [00:46:00] do more, more, more posts, uh, lately. Um, yeah, you can connect. I don't know if, uh, they probably see my name somewhere so they can find me on LinkedIn or go to imamedia. com, uh, And yeah, you can, you should find a Calendly button there to, to jump on a call with us. Yeah, we, we even, uh, we know that kinda getting, getting, uh, starting to work with an agency is a tough commitment. It's a tough decision. So even if you just want to have a free audit, uh, we do that as well. Uh, recommendations, everything. You know, no strings attached. So that's how we, we really want to give value first, uh, to anyone out there.
Cause there's really a lot of ways for you to lose money on Google and, and not do the right thing. Uh, so we just, yeah, our priority is to, to make everyone happy. And if it leads to something, yeah, then [00:47:00] yeah. Uh, but yeah, probably I would say LinkedIn then, uh, probably that was a longer answer that. No, she
Matt: That's fine, find
Kristians: but, uh,
Matt: we will of course link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Uh,
Kristians: Right, so that's, that's, yeah. Go
Matt: we'll put those in the show notes. So if you're listening on a podcast, just go to the show notes on the app, you'll find the link there. If you're watching on YouTube, we'll put the link in the description.
And, of course, if you've signed up to the newsletter, it'll just be in the email, just click the link in the email, it's very, very simple. Uh, but that's aimemedia. com, I pronounced it wrong, so it's not Aimee, it's Aimee, A I M E media.
Kristians: Yeah, so there are different ways to pronounce it. We honestly haven't settled on a one way, uh, ourselves.
Matt: We just keep changing. I have a company called Aurion, A U R I O N. Um, and that's actually the, you know, the, the group, the company's group is Aurion. Everything comes under Aurion. And the amount of times you, I, you know, people will say it's Matt from Orion, Orion. I [00:48:00] just, it's just, no one knows how to pronounce it.
I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right, so I'm with you. You know, I just call it Aurion. I just sound really confident. But of course, we will have all of that, like I say, in the show notes. Listen, Kristians, thank you so much for coming on to the show, man. Genuinely love the conversation. Really, really appreciate it, and I hope, I hope you have a tremendous success with your agency and with what you're doing with ads.
I'll follow you on LinkedIn, I'm gonna learn a lot, no doubt, but yeah, thanks man, really appreciate it.
Kristians: Pleasure being here, Matt. Uh, yeah. Uh, amazing, amazing, uh, podcast experience.
Matt: That's good, wow, that's always helpful,
Kristians: Yeah.
Matt: keeps people coming back. What a great conversation, huge thanks again to Kristians for joining me today, also big shout out to today's show sponsor, the incredible eCommerce Cohort, I appreciate, incredible I'm involved, hence it's incredible. Sounds a bit arrogant.
Anyway, uh, but remember to check them out at ecommercecohort. [00:49:00] com. That's the group, the membership, the mastermind, whatever you want to call it. We're all in there every month. Come join us. Be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your podcasts from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up.
I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Christians has to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by Aurion Media.
You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is. The Wonderful, Beautiful and Talented Sadaf Beynon, and Equally Beautiful, Talented Tanya Hutzalak. Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website eCommercePodcast.
net, where incidentally you can sign up for the newsletter, which I've mentioned if you haven't done so already. So that's it from me. That's it from Kristians. Thank [00:50:00] you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.
