The 25 Questions That Make Amazon Rufus Push Your Product Higher

[00:06] Matt: Well, hello and welcome to the Ecommerce Podcast. My name is Matt Edmundson, and it is great to be with you on what can only be described as a very sunny day here in England. And it's very exciting that it's sunny. Maybe summer is on its way after all. Who knew? Uh, it's great to be with you. If this is your first time on the, uh, with us on the show, a very warm welcome to you. We talk about all things e-commerce. Uh, and if you're a regular to the show, welcome back. And thank you for all the kind comments you send me on LinkedIn. Uh, genuinely love them. Uh, it's always nice to hear from the listeners. So if you haven't done so already, go, go connect with me on LinkedIn. Let me know how you're getting on with the show. Anything you want us to talk about, I would love to hear from you. Uh, and that's basically the intro to the show. So without further ado, uh, let's bring onto the screen David. David, all the— wow, you're kind of from here, but you're kind of from there at the same time, right?

[01:00] David: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So originally from Scotland, but currently living in Thailand, in a very, very hot Thailand. Yeah. Let me tell you, the UV index is something like 14, 15. You get burned at 9 AM in the morning. You can't even go for a nice morning walk. My wife actually went for a walk this morning. She goes very early, like 7, and she was like, no, I'm going to have to start going at 6 now because the UV is so high.

[01:30] Matt: That's crazy. It's not a problem you normally have in Scotland.

[01:34] David: No, no, typically. Yeah, well, let's not even talk about it.

[01:40] Matt: Yeah, no, I was in Scotland this weekend or last week, actually, the whole of last week, and the weather was glorious. Um, didn't rain once, the sunshine was beautiful, slight chill in the air. Loved it, absolutely loved it. I don't know if we hit the right week, but it was definitely a good week to go to St. Andrews. Um, but yeah, tell us a little bit, David, about, uh, what you do in sunny Thailand.

[02:05] David: Yeah, um, location's got nothing to do with it, with the job, but, uh, we, we basically My past has been to help Amazon sellers essentially sell more and help them sell more in the e-commerce space. And I've worked with thousands of brands across the world, mostly from the US and the UK, but also from Europe, from Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, of course. So that's been my last couple of years. Recently, we've been working on new and exciting things to do with AI and optimisation for Amazon specifically and e-commerce for creatives and visuals and all the weird and wonderful things you can now do with AI for e-commerce. So excited to speak about that.

[03:02] Matt: That was good. Well, it's good to have you. Thanks for joining us from Thailand. Are you doing that digital nomad thing?

[03:08] David: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Hopefully for a couple of years and then probably coming back to Europe to start a family or something like that.

[03:17] Matt: Yeah. See how it goes. My son's about to do it. He's heading off to Bali in September. So, um, I'm sort of vicariously living my life through my son right now. It's very exciting. Maybe one day we'll get a chance to sort of hit the trails, but, um, it's great to have you on the show. So let's talk about Amazon. Right now. Amazon is, uh, the untamed beast, as I like to call it, in many ways. Um, and we've talked a fair bit about Amazon on the show, so I, I do like to keep coming back to it, mainly, David, if I'm honest, because I sell on Amazon and I would like to sell more. And so I'm always happy to talk to people that can tell me how to achieve that goal. Um, you've worked, you said, with thousands of people around the world. If you had a magic wand right, that you could wave to solve the key problem that all the brands that you've worked with have, what would that problem be?

[04:11] David: Yeah, very good question. Um, what would that problem be? Does it— I mean, it doesn't have to be realistic, right?

[04:22] Matt: No, it's just, I just— one of those things, if you wish you could sell— you wish you could solve, you could solve it with your magic wand.

[04:29] David: I wish, I wish we had a lot more data or clear data from Amazon. That's what I really wish in terms of how the algorithm works and so on. So nobody really knows how the algorithm works apart from the people that made it, but we do see the symptoms of changing certain things so we can kind of understand how it works. And at the end of the day, the algorithm is you know, more simple than, than we like to make it, which is basically the algorithm is trying to make Amazon as much money as, as they can get out of it. So once we understand their goal, if we align our goals with theirs, then everyone's going to be happy and you're going to be selling more as well at the end of the day.

[05:15] Matt: Yeah, I, I— that makes a lot of sense. It does make a lot of sense. So they obviously want to make a lot more money, we want to make a lot more money. So how do we go about doing that? Um, because I know you've got a framework, haven't you, that you use?

[05:28] David: For sure. Uh, and these are the things that I've seen day in and day out, you know, consulting for and analysing. I've analysed tens of thousands of products. Um, but there's a couple of key metrics that we need to follow. There's, there's many layers to Amazon. There's many layers in terms of product market fit and cross-selling and upselling and so on, but the pillars of Amazon and e-commerce in general is traffic, clicks, and conversions. So, this is the framework I like to walk through because you could have the best offer, you could be selling Lamborghinis for £10, but the reality is that if it's buried at the bottom of the Amazon algorithm and nobody sees your product. You can have amazing images, you can have an amazing offer, people are just not going to buy. And this is why the traffic is the most important and that is the first area I like to discuss. Now Amazon has done something very interesting in the last, last year or two, which is to launch Rufus, which is basically, if you've ever used Rufus before, it's basically their chat GPT within Amazon so that instead of searching for football, you search for football in their chat. Now, the cool thing about this chatbot is that it basically asks you, you know, what kind of football do you want? Do you want it blue, red? What kind of size? So it really understands what you're prioritising, what you're looking for. You're looking for something budget, something more premium. and then it recommends you products. So this is something that's brand new from Amazon, and there's already tens of millions of users. We know this, Amazon gave us the data. There's already tens of millions of users using Rufus already. Most of it is in the US because they launched Rufus in the US first, but it's coming across Europe and so on. It's already live in Europe. It's just not used as much. The question is, how can we get our product to show up more frequently in the chatbot and to show up higher than other products, to have higher priority? And it's a very simple, it's a very simple strategy here. The way AI works in general is that it's all based on data. So if you have the way the AI is trained, even if you ask ChatGPT, you can have 10 documents, for example, saying one thing. The more documentation it has on a specific thing, or the more information it has on a specific thing, the more likely it is to bias towards that answer. Even if that answer is right, wrong, doesn't matter. But that's how the AI works. So, what we're trying to do with Rufus is basically understand the top 20 to 25 questions a customer has. You know, what colour is it? What size is it? What is it made for? What are some of the key benefits? What makes this different than other products? What certification it has? So, every single product has different questions. Some might have a specific set of questions, other a different set. And what we need to do is firstly understand what are those top 25 questions, and then we need to answer those questions in priority order. So the questions that are the most important, we want to answer in more frequently. For example, we want to add it in the title and the bullet points and maybe the product images. Questions that are less important or less likely to get us traffic, we can deprioritise because we have limited amount of space. We've got X amount of characters and X amount of pixels on the platform. So, that's what we're trying to do. And the way the Rufus algorithm works is by analysing title, bullet points, attributes, like, you know, the fields at the bottom. It also looks at product images. So, this is something that's very important. Because we can also answer questions of the product images, and it also looks at reviews and the Q&A sections. So we have a lot of areas to play with, and based off these 25 questions, we need to answer them as, as frequently as we can. And this is half of the discoverability, right? This is half of the traffic question. How do we get more traffic, more people to see the prompt. The second part—

[10:19] Matt: so go ahead, carry on. Yeah, if we're halfway through, let's go to the second point in a second. I've got some questions if I can, because I'm, I'm avidly taking notes here, David. Um, how do we discover, or how do we figure out the top 25 questions? So you, you mentioned about find these questions and then answer them in priority order, which makes total sense to me. It's going back to the old school blogging, you know, they ask, you answer kind of thing. Um, but how do we find out what those questions are? Is that a platform-specific thing with Amazon? Is it more generalized than that? I'm curious how you do it.

[10:53] David: Very good question. Um, we actually have a free audit that you can actually run to see your top 25 questions. So if you've got an Amazon product that you want to check out, if you go to app.selluna.ai/audit, that's Selluna, S-E-L-L-U-N-A dot AI slash audit, you can plug your URL and you can get a free audit and you can actually see your top 25 questions. Alternatively, what you can do is you can take, you know, the title, the bullet points of your product, put in AI and try to ask it what the top 25 questions would be. Yeah. Or you can sit there and, you know, manually write it down based off your knowledge of the product. That's how I would do it.

[11:37] Matt: Yeah, fair enough. We'll of course link to that tool in the show notes if you want to go try that out. That tool's free, right?

[11:45] David: Correct. Yeah. So you can go in there and you'll be able to— the AI will actually analyse every part of your listing, including the images, including click-through rate, conversion rate, and ROAS.

[11:57] Matt: Wonderful. Wonderful. Good. Sorry, I interrupted you. Part 2.

[12:03] David: Part 2 is this SEO, which is the kind of historical way of getting traffic, and it's still very much relevant. Most of the sales are still happening through SEO, which is search engine optimisation. This is basically people who search football in the search bar on Amazon. When they do that, they're gonna see tens and hundreds of, of products. On the search page. Now, SEO and search engine optimisation is mainly based on keywords. So let's say you're selling a blue football, you would want to target blue football keywords. So for example, you know, blue football for kids, blue football for adults, and so on and so on, or football gifts, for example. Those are keywords that you want to target. And the way SEO works is from all the research and all the testings that we've done on thousands and thousands of listings, you want to be focusing on volume of and frequency of those keywords. For example, we target on a listing in the title and the bullet points in the backend and the Premium A+ Content on Amazon. We target over 80 keywords just on the front end. This is the text you can see in exact form. And we target those keywords on average 3 times. So we're not just going to say blue football once, we're going to say it on average 3 times in the listing. So you want breadth, but you also want frequency, especially for your top keywords, your most important keywords. In fact, we, even have listings with the main keyword over 35, 40 times. So for example, you can have that blue football keyword 40 times on listing. And this is not the end-all and be-all of success on Amazon. This is just the groundwork. If you don't have these, uh, groundwork and foundations put in, it's going to be very difficult to get sustainable traction, because this is the first thing that's flagging the algorithm to put you on these pages. For example, put you on the page with, with Blue Football.

[14:25] Matt: Yeah, I guess one question here would be, David, I listening to you talk and it all sounds very sensible. It all sounds very Google 2012 in many ways.

[14:33] David: The—

[14:35] Matt: do you get penalized for keyword stuffing, which is what they used to call it?

[14:40] David: Yes, from our testing, and we do continuous testing, no, right? We, we don't see— we see you, you will get penalized when it comes to— and this is the nuance, right? There's obviously a nuance that we need to— and a balance we need to strike, especially when you're selling more premium products. If you've got a title that looks very keyword-stuffed and bullet points that look keywords very keyword stuffed, from a customer point of view, you might lose some conversions because it can look like a Chinese seller or foreign seller who doesn't, doesn't understand.

[15:18] Matt: Yeah.

[15:19] David: However, from our testing, we've seen that drop in the conversions to be negligible compared to the growth in traffic. So for example, you might, you might lose 1 or 2% or, or decrease 1 or 2% in conversion rate, but your traffic is going up by 10% or 20%. Yeah. Which, which outweighs that loss. Yeah, significantly. So at the end of the day, it is, is very beneficial.

[15:51] Matt: It's a really interesting point, isn't it? And, and again, the keywords, um, that I'm— I mean, it's interesting you said that you have 80 keywords per product. You mentioned them at least 3 times. And the key, key the key keywords. I've just realized what I've just said. Um, the key keywords, you're mentioning a lot more, um, in the content, uh, in the front end and in the back end. Um, which I assume is something you're getting AI to both help you with the keyword research and also write the content. Would that be right?

[16:25] David: That's correct. Yeah. So on the same app.selluna.ai/audit, you'll actually also see your top 30 keywords and how well they're optimised. Or how well they're added in your listing. So you'll be able to see that. And within the app, you can actually optimise your title, your bullet points, and the keywords with Selluna itself, with the tool. But that just does the title, bullet points, and backend keywords. When you create an A+ Content with the tool or the app, it also creates the headline and the boxes for the A+ content that are already Rufus and SEO optimised. Because you don't want just the title bullet points and backend keywords SEO optimised, you want everything, including the premium A+ content, which is a big area, big real estate for, for keywords and for Rufus.

[17:23] Matt: Okay. And do you find there's a tension, uh, between creating content for Rufus and creating content for the the sort of the Amazon SEO?

[17:33] David: Somewhat, yes. You have— Rufus is going to take up a certain amount of space that you still have keywords in there, but it does take some of that real estate away. But it is a balance. Yeah, we have to do both.

[17:50] Matt: So yeah, there is a bit of a tension perhaps, but And are you finding then, like we're finding at the moment with SEO, the majority still, people still going to Google, still typing in the old-fashioned way, right? Because it's, it's, I think it's such an ingrained habit. More and more people are going to AI. Uh, so I'm assuming the same principle is true on Amazon, that most people will still use the search bar like they've always done. Uh, more and more people are going to Rufus as they try and understand what it is and see the power of it, maybe. Um, what, what, what do you see the split there? Are we still predominantly doing search and a few of us are doing Rufus, or is the switch much bigger than we anticipated? I don't know if you know.

[18:41] David: Yes. Yeah. Some, some data is, is saying that up to 40% of sales in Amazon US is happening through Rufus.

[18:48] Matt: Wow.

[18:48] David: Or by customers using Rufus at some point in that journey, which is, which is very big. Uh, I would contest that. I would probably say it's a bit less. I would probably estimate something like 20%, um, but it's only going to grow. That's the reality of it. As more and more people use, start using AI, it's going to grow more and more. And there's also another aspect of this, which is the future. Yeah, because the reality is that the future is not just, uh, what you have right now with Rufus, but the future is looking at, uh, agentic shopping and Amazon actually connecting to other tools. Um, and obviously all that information and all of that purchasing decision is going to be based on the Rufus data that they've already collected through their platform. So there's multiple layers that we'll be able to stack in the future on top of this Rufus, which makes it very valuable to get a big share of the traffic through Rufus now while it's still less competitive. Because if you look at SEO, what happened with SEO was 2018, 2017, 2016, Nobody was doing SEO. People were just popping one image, short title, and it was selling like hot cupcakes. However, nowadays everyone's doing SEO, so it's become very competitive and very difficult to get any traction. But the people who had traction in 2018, if they— I mean, I've I've spoken with people who have not touched their listing since 2010, right? And just because they had, uh, so much authority in 2010, 2011, and over all, you know, two decades of selling on Amazon has allowed them to not have to do too much to keep that authority. It doesn't happen for everyone.

[20:56] Matt: Yeah.

[20:56] David: But it does happen for some. So what I'm saying is get in while there's few competitors doing it, and then you'll be able to defend your position rather than fight for it.

[21:07] Matt: Yeah, no, fair enough. And time-wise, uh, like, I suppose an example would be one of the websites that we did 5 years ago. In the last year, it's ranked number 2 on Google, right, behind the main sort of brand, ranked number 2 after 5 years. Um, sometimes SEO seems to take a long time, sometimes you can do it quicker. Um, what's it like on Amazon?

[21:37] David: Amazon indexes within about 30 days. Indexing meaning it basically refreshes and it, it knows what your updated listing is However, once we get on to the next points, which are click-through rate and conversion rate, you will be able to better understand how this works. Because it is a long-term SEO, and Rufus less so, because it's once the AI knows the questions, it knows the questions. But SEO is something that's more long-term. So you're looking at 3 to 6 months to kind of go from not much to something that's 80% mature, right? So you're— if you don't keep touching it, in 3 to 6 months is basically at the peak of what's— what it's going to be.

[22:28] Matt: Okay, fair enough. And is it a case of actually, if you're competing in a market that is saturated by quite a few big players, it's going to be quite hard to, to climb those rankings?

[22:40] David: Um, yes, of course, of course. Uh, not just because of those big guys, but you know, if there's someone— if the bestseller is doing, let's say, a million dollars a month and they've been there for a long time, the likelihood is that position 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7— you know, if it was just those guys, okay, they can have position 1, we can have position 2. Which is, by the way, not a big difference in sales. If you have, you know, really the top 10 positions on a page pretty much have the same traffic depending on if it's desktop. On desktop, because it all shows on one page, it's essentially— you're not getting much benefit by being number 1. On mobile, of course, you are because you have to scroll. Uh, so yeah, a more mature category, a more competitive category is going to be harder to, uh, to break into for sure.

[23:40] Matt: But I guess this is why, um, Rufus is, is your friend right now, uh, if you optimise with Rufus in mind, right? Because I imagine a lot of people aren't. Um, like we've been doing some research just on sites from an SEO point of view who are geared up for AI. And it's minuscule, uh, you know, the amount of people that are geared up for AI search on their sites. Um, but I mean, that's another story. So I imagine that's where the opportunity lies, you know. If SEO has become complex, AI search— the, the quantity of search in that area is not big, but it's a lot less competitive, and you can start to build some traction in that, I would have thought.

[24:22] David: Completely. And, and the, the big thing is also the the long-term strategy, which is to be able to defend that position on Rufus, is going to be much easier than it is to do this optimisation in 6 months from now. And the growth curves for things like Rufus and AI are, you know, hockey sticks. So the quicker you get in, the much, much better it's going to be.

[24:51] Matt: Yeah. Okay, so traffic, um, clicks.

[24:57] David: Awesome. Um, now let's say you've got amazing Rufus optimisation and amazing SEO. You're showing up higher on pages, you're showing up more in the chat. People still need to click on your product, otherwise they're not going to be able to buy, right? And 80% of the click-through rate is driven by the main image. If you look at a search page, the main image takes up, you know, most of the space or the spaces for products. You've got the title, the reviews, but the main image is the main thing we can attack to improve. And not doing at least 2 or 3 A/B tests for a product that's doing, let's say, over $1,000 per month in sales is criminal in 2026. Not doing at least 2 or 3 A/B tests is criminal. And here's why I say this. I'm going to give you some checklists of things you want to look out for in terms of A/B testing. But here's how the algorithm works. Let's say that we have one main image and we have another one that does 10% more clicks, right? Which is very reasonable growth, very reasonable test, relatively easy to get. 10% more clicks is, is relatively easy to get. That is 10% more sales instantly, right? As soon as you upload that image that does better, instantly, you know, 10% more sales. However, on the long term, looking at 12 months, looking at 24 months from now, that could mean the difference between, you know, $50,000 in monthly sales and $40,000 in monthly sales. And why do I say that? Because that extra boost in clicks and conversions is going to tell the algorithm that your product is better than it was before or better than the competition. So what's going to happen is because they see your product performing better, they're actually going to give you more traffic.

[26:56] Matt: Yeah.

[26:57] David: And that extra traffic is going to drive even more sales past the 10% increase from, from the clicks because the Amazon algorithm is essentially trying to put the right product in front of the right customer. And the way they know they put the right product in front of the right customer is whether they clicked and converted, because that's what makes the money. So again, we have to go back to what makes Amazon money. And this is why we need to look at every metric and make sure they're all optimised, because if you have a terrible main image I mean, they're going to try to put your product higher and show it more often, but if people don't click on it, they're going to not do that for long.

[27:42] Matt: Yeah, right. That's fair enough. They call it sales velocity, don't they? Is a phrase I hear banded about. I guess what is working then on this main image? You know, I, I don't know. Well, I mean, I do know, but, you know, are there rules that Amazon have on, on what that image should be? Can those rules be broken? Do you go completely mad and have animated GIFs with bright yellow backgrounds? I mean, what are you seeing working here?

[28:10] David: Very good question. Yes, there are rules. General rules are it should not be misleading and it should be on a white background. Now, the misleading part, for sure, you shouldn't make something that looks misleading because that's in the spirit of the rules. However, the white background, adding extra things on there is really, you know, how smart you are in terms of not getting flagged by their AI. It's as simple as that. And even if you do get flagged, it's not a big deal. You can upload a new image and it's fine. So we can bend the rules somewhat as long as it's not misleading. A couple of checklists. You need to— most of the traffic is on mobile. So you actually need to put that image on, on the product or put it on your phone and zoom out a bit because it's really kind of like the, the size of two thumbs. So just make it the size of two thumbs and see, is that image attractive? Is it going to get me to click? If not, what do you need to change? Some common rules: make the product as big as possible in the image, try to cover as many pixels as possible and make sure you have decent contrast. You know, if you've got a white product, it's going to be difficult to make it stand out against a white background. So make sure you add heavier shadows on the back so that it pops the product out. Another very important thing, like I mentioned before, the blue football. Let's say you've got a blue football. What we do and, and what we've seen to work really well is, for example, to add a label that is kind of either stuck on or to the side of the football that's connected that says the main keyword. So for example, you would say on a label, blue football.

[30:04] Matt: Yeah.

[30:04] David: Now why would you do that? It's obviously a blue football. When people are on Amazon and they scroll through products and products and products and they see your blue football, but they can also read that it's a blue football in the image, subconsciously they're more likely to click. Even if that's 5% more likely to click, it's very significant. Another thing you can do to make a product more attractive is add any of the ingredients. If you're selling supplements or oils or beauty products or anything like that that has ingredients, you can add some of those flowers in, you can add some of those ingredients in to make it pop even more, make it more attractive, to add some colour perhaps.

[30:49] Matt: But it has to be— the label has to be connected to the product. It can't be a standalone thing, correct?

[30:55] David: Yeah, otherwise it will get flagged by their AI. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, so these are some of the things you can do tomorrow, right?

[31:05] Matt: Yeah, yeah. And I can guarantee fixes, aren't they?

[31:09] David: Relatively, yes, yeah. And you A/B test it. I can't tell you what's going to work best, but you A/B test 2 or 3 main images and you're going to get, you know, I can pretty much guarantee if you've not done it before, you'll get at least 10-20% more clicks.

[31:26] Matt: And how long do you— so let's say I create 3 different images, right, based off of this conversation, and I create the 3 different images. I put image number 1 on? Does Amazon have an A/B test feature, or do I, like, put image number 1 on for a week and then image number 2 for another week? How would you do that?

[31:44] David: Depending on your traffic and whether you've got Brand Registry, you'll have A/B testing directly from Amazon, where you can put 2 images, test them out. You want to test them out really for— depends on how much traffic you have, but at least 4 weeks, I would say. If you're doing under $1,000 in sales, it's going to be difficult to get any real data, and it might even be disabled. You need a certain amount of traffic for A/B testing to be enabled for your product. I believe it's 1,000 people monthly page visits, but you can actually search for, you know, A/B testing in the settings on, on Seller Central and find and see if you've got that available.

[32:34] Matt: Yeah, fair enough. Very good. And if you don't have it available, I assume you can just manually change the images?

[32:40] David: Yeah, you can do. Um, it's gonna be hard because there's many other variables outside of your main image, you know, like time of the year, if it's a seasonal product, and so on. But if the differences are big enough, like, you know, 20% more clicks, you'll be able to tell that it's probably because of that, that main image.

[33:01] Matt: Yeah, very good. Okay, so clicks, and finally conversion.

[33:08] David: Yeah, on the conversion side, of course, this is something that everyone understands, um, but let's say we've got amazing clicks now, amazing SEO, amazing roofers. We still need to get people to convert, and there's— this is the most or the biggest area where we can actually work on, because you've got the main image, which also affects conversions, but you've got 7 images within Amazon. You can add the video. I don't recommend doing it at the beginning, uh, because most people don't actually click on videos. It's only about 2% of people who click on videos. So don't worry about not having a video, but there's a couple of must-haves. You need to have at least 5 product images. You need to have premium A+ content, at least 5 banners of premium A+ content, which goes at the bottom of your— it's basically like a nice visual product description.

[34:07] Matt: Yeah.

[34:08] David: And something that almost everyone misses is a brand story. So that goes above or below your product description, which is the Premium A+ Content, but it's something completely separate. But again, if you search for these things and what they are, you'll be able to visually see them. But these are the things that are going to get people to convert. If you're selling a premium product, you need to have premium branding. I see this a lot. People come to me and say, hey, you know, we think we're not selling enough because we're selling at 50% more than the competition. And I go, where is your branding? We've got, we've got some of our, some of our clients, they are selling 5 to 6 times more than the average and they still have 20% market share in their market. We've got a Doodlebrush client they're selling the product for £60 and the competition is selling it for £12, and they've got the biggest market share, right? And the reason they've got that is because we have done very, very good branding. This is why Nike, Apple can charge more than the competition, because they have very good branding. So your branding needs to speak for the, the company. For the product images, they're really the most important, more important than premium. Although everything is needed, product images is where you want to answer those top 5 to 10 questions, right? Just like we did it for Rufus, Rufus optimisation, which by the way, the Rufus also checks the images, the top 5 questions. And you should really spend, spend your, you know, most of your time actually thinking about what are the top 5 questions and research them. Because you want to answer those in priority order. For example, if you're selling a premium product, one of your most important images there needs to be us versus them, right? Why are you charging me $60 when someone else is charging me $30, right? That's the first question they're gonna have when they land on your product.

[36:21] Matt: Yeah, yeah.

[36:22] David: So you need to answer that question, you need to justify it. 'If you can't, you probably need a different product.' But most of the time you've got justifications for it, right? Whether it's better quality and so on and so on. So you need to think of those top 5 questions and every question needs to serve a purpose and it needs to answer a question. Because a confused buyer is not buyer. They're not gonna buy. What's gonna happen is they're gonna scroll to look for more info and they're gonna get bombarded with another 20 products by the competitors and they're just gonna click on that.

[36:55] Matt: Yeah, that's super powerful. I love that. Uh, I think it's great, but I'm also, David, aware of time, so, uh, I, I, I've got questions, but we'll have to park them, uh, for now. Um, if people want to— maybe they've got questions of people listening to the show, like, David, I want you to answer this question for me. How do they reach out to you? How do they connect with you? What's the best way to do that?

[37:19] David: The best way to do that is either through my email david@selluna.ai. That's S-E-L-L-U-N-A dot A-I. But what I recommend everyone does is if you're selling on Amazon, you need to go to app.selluna.ai or just go to selluna.ai or search it up on Google. And on the homepage, you'll see, you'll be able to actually audit your own listing and see how well you're doing. So it'll give you a score for Rufus, for SEO, for click-through rates and conversion rates. So everything we walk through, you'll be able to see exactly what you should be doing and how you should be doing it. And you can also start a free trial and just generate some things for your listing for free and see what, you know, get some main image ideas or product images or Premium A+ Content.

[38:12] Matt: Fantastic. Where does the name Selluna come from?

[38:16] David: Uh, it comes from seller, you know, Amazon seller, um, and Luna, which is the moon. So we've got like a lunar theme, uh, for, for the app. Yeah.

[38:28] Matt: So you've amalgamated two words together.

[38:31] David: Correct.

[38:32] Matt: Very good. Uh, David, listen, um, genuinely a real treat talking to you, man. Really appreciate you coming on the show. Uh, I've got lots of notes. Uh, going to be talking to our team again tomorrow. They hate it when I get lots of notes because we just go and have— right, this is what I learned. What are we going to do? Um, but listen, genuinely brilliant. Uh, thank you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. Really learning from your expertise. For those that have stayed to the end, uh, in the last sort of 2 minutes that we've got together, I would love for you to give us your top tip. Um, I mean, we've talked about traffic, we've talked about conversion and clicks. I appreciate I've got those the wrong way around. But if someone is sort of stagnated, I suppose, with Amazon, or maybe even not really started yet on Amazon, what's your best value tip that you can give them? The best value you've got, the microphone for the next 2 minutes is yours. What's your answer?

[39:32] David: Yes, one thing I tell everyone is that the, the text speaks to the algorithm and the images speak to the customer. So when you're optimising the title, the bullet points, think of it as I'm speaking to the algorithm because no person actually reads that. Uh, people, when they land on Amazon on a listing, they don't care about you know, your bullet points. They don't, they really don't. Nobody, nobody reads that, unfortunately, anymore. Nobody reads in general. But the images need to speak to the customer because, because of social media and Shorts and TikTok and so on. People are very quick to decide. They want things easy. They want things in a visual format. So make sure that your images are not full of text. They need to answer questions for sure, but you can't write paragraphs. And they need to be visually understandable. So if you've got a 3-step process on how to apply, you know, let's say a face mask, you can, you can say like step 1, step 2, step 3, but on the left side also add the icons, right? So if step 1 is mix, actually add the mixing bowl with a mix. If step 2 is, I don't know, let it rest for 3 minutes, you can put a 3-minute and then put it on your face. You can put it— so you need to have a very good user experience when people land on there. So this is, this is my, this is my top tip.

[41:08] Matt: I like that. Text is for the algorithm, images are for the people. I'm going to remember that. That's very, very sticky. David, thanks, man. Really appreciate you. Appreciate you coming on, uh, It's been fantastic.

[41:20] David: My pleasure. Thank you so much, Matt.

[41:22] Matt: It's been great. I love your energy, dude. I really do. So thank you, listener, for joining us this week on the E-Commerce Podcast and yet another great episode. If you haven't done so already, make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that good stuff. All of the notes from today's conversation with David, all of the links will be in the show notes, which you can get just by scrolling down on your podcast app. You can get by looking at the YouTube description if you're watching this. And of course, if you're signed up to the email, they'll be in your inbox. And of course everything will be on the website ecommercepodcast.net. Just go and find David on there and you'll find all the links that you could possibly want. But yeah, that's it from me. That's it from David. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time.

[42:09] David: Bye for now.